Aciera F5 slotting attachment in action

rklopp · Oct 29, 2017

I had to customize two sprockets to fit a gearbox and saw input shaft. Not having the proper broaches, I hauled out the Aciera slotting attachment I picked up for my F5. I used a 1/2” lathe boring bar with a 3/16” bit turned sideways. It worked a treat.

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lucky7 · Oct 30, 2017

Does Aciera have a clapper arrangement?

L7

quarkgluonplasma · Oct 30, 2017

Very nice, indeed...

I have no experience with the machine tool business at all and, therefore, am wondering how a tool sold by Greub in Switzerland could have made it to your place ?????

rklopp · Oct 30, 2017

lucky7 said:
Does Aciera have a clapper arrangement?

L7

No clapper, and I don't seem to miss it. I think Aciera's lack of a clapper is consistent with Deckel's slotter. Also, I understand some folks have better luck locking the clapper on Bridgeport slotters, too.

AlfaGTA · Oct 30, 2017

Rich:
Nice looking unit. Can you give some additional details on how the tool is retained?
I understand the top clamp, but what is the seat like? Can it account for different sized tools?
Are there only two clamp bolts to secure the head on its swivel(protractor)?

Cheers Ross

rklopp · Oct 30, 2017

quarkgluonplasma said:
Very nice, indeed...

I have no experience with the machine tool business at all and, therefore, am wondering how a tool sold by Greub in Switzerland could have made it to your place ?????

The F5's previous owner only had a low-mount table on the machine and a tilt table he bought separately and never took out of its crate. He had gotten quotes for a 7-slot fixed table from Greub, first high and then at $500 (must not be flying off the shelves). When I got the machine, I asked Greub if they would honor the $500 price, and they would. I knew Greub had a slotter for sale, so I figured that, since I was going to all of the trouble of shipping the table from Switzerland, I might as well ship the slotter, too, so asked how much for the slotter. The answer was a price so low that my wrist got whiplash reaching for my wallet. The shipping cost as much as the goods, but still a good deal for a table and slotter that appear to have never been used.

The only thing I would do differently is make sure Greub did a better job of packaging the goods. They assured me the items would be crated, but they were loose on a pallet by the time they got to me. There was no damage, thankfully.

rklopp · Oct 30, 2017

Ross,

The slotter's tool seat is a 90-degree corner to the left, acting like a V-block. The heel of the top clamp rides on a 45-degree wall to the right, so crowds the tool into the 90-degree corner by forcing back and to the left. It's a clever arrangement, though I'm not sure it works for a huge range of shank sizes. The butt of the tool sits against a replaceable insert to absorb the push force of cutting.

The only drawback to using the slotter is that the lowest feed rate is still too fast, so I had to feed by hand. That is where a VFD would come in handy. However, the feed motor is 575V, so suitable VFDs are not exactly falling from the skies.

RKlopp

rklopp · Oct 30, 2017

AlfaGTA said:
Rich:

Are there only two clamp bolts to secure the head on its swivel(protractor)?

Cheers Ross

There are four bolts holding the swivel head, two long and two short. You can see the two long ones in the first photo, and one of the short ones to the lower left in the second photo. Don't worry, the setup is very rigid.

The shiny female hex above the swivel screw in the first photo is a cool feature. It is a spring-loaded pinion that lets you wind the slotter through its stroke using a hex key (T-handle preferred). The mill needs to be shifted into neutral, of course. Using the hex key, you push the pinion inward against the spring to engage the crank gear inside the head.

AlfaGTA · Oct 30, 2017

rklopp said:
The shiny female hex above the swivel screw in the first photo is a cool feature. It is a spring-loaded pinion that lets you wind the slotter through its stroke using a hex key (T-handle preferred). The mill needs to be shifted into neutral, of course. Using the hex key, you push the pinion inward against the spring to engage the crank gear inside the head.

I like the idea of this.....!
Final question : how is the stroke adjusted?

Ok that the feed is too fast i would guess...wouldn't want to have constant feed for a slotter...Makes for excess dragging on the return stroke....
Guessing that you gave the feed an increment each time the tool came up and out of the slot....That's the way i use my Deckel slotting head.
Cheers Ross

rklopp · Oct 30, 2017

AlfaGTA said:
I like the idea of this.....!
Final question : how is the stroke adjusted?

Ok that the feed is too fast i would guess...wouldn't want to have constant feed for a slotter...Makes for excess dragging on the return stroke....
Guessing that you gave the feed an increment each time the tool came up and out of the slot....That's the way i use my Deckel slotting head.
Cheers Ross

The stroke is adjusted by moving the crankpin in a circular slot on the face of the bullgear. See below. I fed the cutter incrementally when the cutter was disengaged. However, I don't think drag would be much of a problem at a steady feed rate of 0.001-0.002" per stroke. There is always a little drag, or a spring cut would not work, yet it does make a second thin chip for at least one additional stroke after a move.

Mud · Oct 30, 2017

The stroke is adjusted by moving the crankpin in a circular slot

That's clever, I've never seen a circular adjustment for stroke length.

AlfaGTA · Oct 30, 2017

So do i understand that the stroke is set by loosening the bolt in the center of the crank pin and sliding it in the circular track...
Crank pin held fast with a "T" nut or the like?...

So there is no fine adjustment, to this? Interesting.
Is it easy to do?
Cheers Ross

ewlsey · Oct 30, 2017

AlfaGTA said:
So there is no fine adjustment, to this? Interesting.

You can make your fine adjustment by moving the mill table up or down. You don't really need fine adjustment of the stroke length. The Bridgeport version, and my Cincinnati version use a tool like a chuck key to move the ram on the crank mechanism to set the stroke length.

Mud · Oct 30, 2017

I'm going to guess that you loosen the crankpin bolt holding the Tnut in the slot and turn the gear train to turn that gear, which would move the crankpin and tnut in the slot and adjust the stroke length.

rklopp · Oct 30, 2017

Mud said:
I'm going to guess that you loosen the crankpin bolt holding the Tnut in the slot and turn the gear train to turn that gear, which would move the crankpin and tnut in the slot and adjust the stroke length.

Mud's got it. You use the spring-loaded pinion to wind the ram to top dead center, then insert a 10-mm hex key into the hole in the mid-face of the ram to access the crankpin bolt and loosen it. Then you keep the hex key in the bolt while turning the pinion. The stroke is read on a scale to the right of the ram. It is graduated 0-80 mm stroke in 1 mm graduations. The pinion provides fine adjustment. Once you are happy with the stroke, you tighten the crankpin bolt. It's pretty simple and effective, and seems a lot less complicated than Bridgeport's version.

The ram rides on dovetail ways with a tapered gib just like the X- and Z-slides on the mill. Unlike with Bridgeport's shaper attachment, there is no slack in any direction if the gib is adjusted correctly. Bridgeport's gib only controls one direction of ram clearance, because the ram is square.

AlfaGTA · Oct 31, 2017

Rich:
Thanks for all that..interesting, nice simple arrangement. Yes, i think the dovetail ways are a step up from the BP design.....

Side note: The Deckel slotting head also has dovetail ways....
There the crank pin rides in a slot and is positioned (stroke) with a screw (supported at each end)....Very positive...Loosen the center clamp bolt ,insert Allen key in a hole at the top of the head and
turn the screw to change the stroke.
As with the Aciera head there is a scale on the ram to gauge the stroke length.

Sure its only a problem in my imagination..but personally I don't like the idea of the crank pin, that gets impact loads, being held simply by a single "T" nut in single shear....
Cheers Ross

AlexO · Oct 31, 2017

ewlsey said:
You can make your fine adjustment by moving the mill table up or down. You don't really need fine adjustment of the stroke length. The Bridgeport version, and my Cincinnati version use a tool like a chuck key to move the ram on the crank mechanism to set the stroke length.

I apologize for "contributing" out of the blue but ( I am a pretty consistent shaper user ) the speed at the start of the cut matters a lot.

ballen · Nov 1, 2017

AlexO said:
The speed at the start of the cut matters a lot.

I've used my Deckel slotting head quite a few times, typically on cast iron or steel gears and pulleys. I usually adjust it for one of the slowest stroke rates (40 or 60 per minute) to make it easier to feed in between strokes. The cut is always nice, the metal just peels off in curls with a nice hissing noise leaving a good surface behind. Perhaps in other materials a faster cut would be beneficial, but with this setup I don't think it's practical, and the "calm" factor would be gone.

If the speed at the start of the cut is important, then if possible one should adjust the stroke to be about TWICE the thickness of the material being cut. Then set up so that the tool just clears the end of the cut at the bottom of the stroke. This means that at the top of the stroke, the tool will be ABOVE the top of the material by an amount roughly equal to the length of the cut. This setup will ensure that the speed entering the cut is maximal.

(The principle behind this setup is that the speed at the top and at the bottom of the stroke is zero, whereas the speed in the middle of the stroke is the maximum value. So you want the tool to enter the material in the middle of the stroke, where the speed is largest.)

Cheers,
Bruce

rklopp · Nov 1, 2017

I was thinking the opposite, namely that you wanted to ease into the cut, so would set the stroke reversal close to the top of the part. I don't like the impact created by entering the cut at max speed.

AlfaGTA · Nov 1, 2017

rklopp said:
I was thinking the opposite, namely that you wanted to ease into the cut, so would set the stroke reversal close to the top of the part. I don't like the impact created by entering the cut at max speed.

Keeping the stroke to a minimum is important at least for me.....,The slotters we are discussing here by design have the same speed
on the ram both during cutting and on the return stroke,unlike a shaper that has a yoke and link to generate different velocities on the cutting and return stroke .The return is wasted time...no cutting happening and any extra stroke length extends the time....

Further,as Rich points out, i think its better to enter the cut slow and increase once the tool is engaged and stabilized in the cut. (min clearance above the cut)
Cheers Ross

Aciera F5 slotting attachment in action

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