Aciera F5NC Dixi 2100/2 retrofit.
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  1. #1
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    Smile Aciera F5NC Dixi 2100/2 retrofit.

    Hello everyone.
    A few months ago I bought an Aciera F5NC with Dixi controller.
    The machine has been standing still for years.
    I tried to turn it on but the control has several problems.
    So the only thing left for me to use it is to do a retrofit.

    f5.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_20210430_131605.jpg  

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    dixi.jpg

    dixi-2.jpg

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    More pictures

    y-ais-guide-2.jpg

    y-ais-guide.jpg

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    By mistake I deleted the post where I write that I was disassembling the machine with its photos
    Tomorrow I write it again.
    Those who know the machine come forward with advice.

  5. #5
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    The Y ways look pretty good. Maybe the machine saw low use because of the odd controller. I have a manual F5, which shares some iron and transmission guts, but not much else.

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    I rewrite the message that I accidentally deleted to correct it:
    I read about the Aciera F5 here on the forum.
    I found some manuals online.
    So I started disassembling to make sure everything is ok before starting the retrofit.
    The machine is very easy to disassemble.
    The ways of the X and Y axis are still in good condition (the scraping is still visible) and the gibs still have useful register, X however is a little worn in the lower part due to the force applied by the weight of the table.
    The situation is different for the Z axis. Removing the rubber cover, I saw that the gib is under the adjusting screw. The Z axis fits snugly, but the gib is at the end.
    Once the Z axis motor (brushed tacho DC motor) was disassembled, I tried to turn the axis slightly by hand without success, then I realized that there is a brake (classic DC 24V brake).

    bearing-replaced.jpg

    orizontal-head.jpg

    table.jpg

    x-axys-scraping-2.jpg

    x-axys-scraping.jpg

    I wonder if I will be able to recreate the gib with the machine itself using a piece of AISI 1018

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks rklop.

    The machine is from 1980.
    The machine worked quite a bit.
    Together with the machine I was given a series of documents and control manuals. In a folder there are all the interventions that have been made by the Swiss Dixi technicians. I also have a couple of boxes with the pieces that have been replaced over time. So rather than saying that it has worked little, we can say that it has been well maintained.

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    I wonder if I will be able to recreate the gib with the machine itself using a piece of AISI 1018



    Would not use 1018. Not good for a gib if it is part of the bearing (sliding) surfaces....Cast iron would be the material of choice here....
    Simplest solution would be to fit a piece of shim stock behind the original gib.....
    If you want to get fancy , applying "Turcite" to the bearing face and scraping to fit would be my choice....Likely original has Turcite (or similar material) and a good repair might entail fitting a new piece of
    Turcite slightly thicker than original and scraping to get the correct fit needed and restore the usable adjustment of the gib...

    Might take a look here:
    The FP3NC rebuild continues (large file, lots of photos)






    Cheers Ross

    PS. Of course i would want to know why the Gib had been run to the end of its adjustment.....Some careful measurements of the vertical ways seems in order here...

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    Thanks Ross for the advice.
    Yes, the solution with Turcite is actually better.
    Now I read the post of the FP3NC that you recommended to me.

    I bought the machine from a second-hand dealer who collected it from a precision workshop. So I don't know who worked on it and how.
    But as I said, I have the repair documents.

    I can't say why the Z axis gib is so worn. Okay that the Z axis is subject to greater forces, but this does not explain a wear so different from the gibs of X and Y.

    For those who are curious I am attaching the Dixi NC brochure.

    img_20211024_184100.jpg

    img_20211024_184104.jpg

    img_20211024_184114.jpg

    img_20211024_184126.jpg

    img_20211024_184133.jpg
    Last edited by Grazio87; 10-24-2021 at 08:08 PM.

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    More pictures...

    img_20211024_184138.jpg

    img_20211024_184155.jpg

    The problem will also be finding the pull-studs for the ISO40 DIN2080 cones. I have read in various forums that other people have also had this problem because the pull studs are not standard and seem to be found only on Swissmachines at a very high price.
    I am attaching the picture of the page of the Aciera catalog, so that it is clear which components the spindle nose mounts.

    img_20211024_184310.jpg

    With the milling machine I was given: the repair documents, the control manuals, some spare electronic boards, a ball screw, and the tool holder as in the following picture (the first above) and nothing else. No vises and cones.

    img_20211024_184357.jpg
    Last edited by Grazio87; 10-24-2021 at 08:05 PM.

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    The machine is equipped with Heidenhain LS 903 scales.
    The Y axis scale has dry and broken lips, the X and Z ones are intact but still need to be changed.
    I bought new lips from Franz Singer (Germany).

    ls.jpg

    ls2.jpg

    Now trying to figure out which Mesa cards (like the 7i77 and 5i25) is best suited for retrofitting in order to buy it. With the cards and the pc (Linuxcnc) I will be able to test the servo drives and the scales.

    -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------

    I wonder how much a milling machine like this could have cost in 1980, with DC servos, Heidenhain LS903 and Dixi control (with boring cycles, tapping cycles and oriented stop of the spindle).

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    If you are replacing the seals, be sure to go the extra mile and thoroughly clean the scales and read heads....
    Do a search here and you will find info on cleaning....
    Also some info on reforming the channel that the seals fit into. Some scales seem to be almost crimped and the seals are very hard to remove and install new....Other units allow install easily..
    Have had both

    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazio87 View Post
    The machine is equipped with Heidenhain LS 903 scales. The Y axis scale has dry and broken lips, the X and Z ones are intact but still need to be changed. I bought new lips from Franz Singer (Germany).
    Here are details on refurbishing scales. Your LS903 are the same as the LS803 described in my post, but with a different period and reference mark locations.

    Repairing Heindenhain VRZ 753B + LS803 scales

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    Thanks for the advice AlfaGTA and ballen.

    Yes I have already read that post. In fact, that's where I read where to order the lips.

    I hope this weekend to find time to properly disassemble the Z axis in order to inspect it and see if I need to replace the ballscrew or not.

    Today I was thinking of not using the original electrical cabinet for the retrofit because it is gigantic! It is almost twice the size of the machine, it is very heavy (about 400kg) and the curious thing is that it is screwed entirely with screws of class 12.9 (surely the Swiss manufacturer only owned screws of class 12.9 and they also used them for the electrical cabinet). A lot of space is comfortable ok, but it takes away a lot of space in my workshop.

    I still have to decide whether to leave the original electric motor (DC brushed motor with tacho) or mount a 4kW three-phase electric motor with VFD (I already have a 5kW Toshiba VFD that I don't use).
    Yes, I know, if I replace the electric motor I will no longer have the possibility of threading except with the tapping attachments (like Tapmatic), but I am sure that I will hardly be able to make the old Siemens electronics that controls the original DC motor work well, risking never being able to use it.
    What do you think?

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    several threads on Aciera F5 cnc are mine--a few comments
    the z axis gib is very poorly designed--top adjusting screw is hollow and has few engaging threads holding the gib
    gib itself is soft ductile iron and fractures---dovetail z axis ways more prone to galling and poor fit than Deckel type box ways

    you may need to engineer better gib system

    I replaced siemens dc spindle motor with ac 3 phase and frequency drive
    Centroid control satisfied with retrofit

    if Aciera had box ways--I would have kept the F5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazio87 View Post
    Yes I have already read that post. In fact, that's where I read where to order the lips.
    Glad to hear that this helped!

    I still have to decide whether to leave the original electric motor (DC brushed motor with tacho) or mount a 4kW three-phase electric motor with VFD
    A couple of years ago, I needed a powerful compact smooth-running variable-high-speed motor for driving an inside grinding spindle attachment that I was building. After some research I purchased a brushless DC motor with Hall-effect sensor feedback and driver, because it offered many advantages. (In fact I purchased five motors, the minimum order, and sold the other four.) I wanted to avoid brushes, since they wear and generate noise and vibration.

    Cheers,
    Bruce
    Last edited by ballen; 10-28-2021 at 06:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazio87 View Post
    Yes, I know, if I replace the electric motor I will no longer have the possibility of threading except with the tapping attachments (like Tapmatic),
    What do you think?
    This will not be a problem with a modern control retrofit. Can easily thread mill any thread (single point style) you wish even with a replacement 3 phase spindle motor.
    Use circular interpolation coupled to a depth move called using polar programming...
    Works perfect even on my ancient Deckel FP4NC which has no spindle encoder ....

    Can't do rigid tapping, but its not an issue if you use a floating tap holder....
    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHOLLAND1 View Post
    several threads on Aciera F5 cnc are mine--a few comments
    the z axis gib is very poorly designed--top adjusting screw is hollow and has few engaging threads holding the gib
    gib itself is soft ductile iron and fractures---dovetail z axis ways more prone to galling and poor fit than Deckel type box ways

    you may need to engineer better gib system

    I replaced siemens dc spindle motor with ac 3 phase and frequency drive
    Centroid control satisfied with retrofit

    if Aciera had box ways--I would have kept the F5

    Yes, I had already read your comments on the Z axis guides as well.
    You are definitely right. I also had an Aciera F3 and it is not comparable to the F5 of course, the F5 is quite another thing in comparison (weight, travel of the ways, hydraulic spindle, milling and boring capacity, automatic lubrication of the ways etc.), but for as far as the adjustment of the Z axis gib is concerned, it seemed to me that I had the F3 model in front of me, only a little bigger.
    It is a pity that the axis most subject to stress has not been engineering upgraded.
    Otherwise it looks like a fantastic machine.

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    -ballen- Your post was very useful for me, thank you.

    -AlfaGTA- I just bought a used but in good condition 4kw three phase motor online. It arrives in a few days.
    When the machine is finished I will also look for a Tapmatic tapping attachments for the rigid tapping.


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