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Alexander toolmaster ( deckel fp1 ) clone

balibalistic

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Location
on/CA
Hey fellas, yesterday I went and picked up an Alexander toolmaster milling machine. I really don't know much about it, other then it looks awful but functions at 100%.

It has an adaptor plate to use a 56c frame motor. And currently has a little 110v 1.5 HP motor with forward and reverse wired into the rocker switch. The hi-low switch works perfectly to control speeds. And all six speeds engage and work as they should. The Joy stick controls the power feeds, forward reverse and side to side.. Controls the Z and X flawlessly. All though it's a little slow.

It came with a few accessories, everything to use the machine in the horizontal and vertical. All though the draw bars are a little odd and I've only got a couple collets. So I ordered an mt4 to er collet set. Internally, the machine looks new. It's quite interesting. I was hoping maybe I could bother you fellas with some questions add opinions of I could?

How do I attach photos?
 
Some Alexander owners here and think much of the early FP1 knowledge also applies.
Welcome....
First order is to post some photos of your new prize.
Cheers Ross
 
As to posting images...From the "forum" scroll down to the "Images and Links" group.
Within you will find some step by step instructions for image hosting....There are a couple of different options.
Cheers Ross
 
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Couple quick pics. Ok first question. You'll see in the photo with all the accessories.. In the top left there's a collet adaptor with a collet and End mill in it. How the hell do I get the collet out of the adaptor?

Getting the adaptor out of the spindle was impossible u until I realized that there was an included tool for it.. Pleasant surprise. But I can't get that 3/8 collet out...
 
My first go would be to make a "benck block" to work against. Using a piece of stock that is at least as large in OD as the outside diameter of the Morse adapter and longer than the endmill sticking out of the
collet.

Drill a hole in the stock that is just a bit larger than the OD of the collet holding the endmill.
Face the end true and flat.
place the stock on the bench with the hole facing up. Set the collet holder against the stock...endmill and collet into the hole.

Place a soft drift (brass or aluminum) that is just smaller than the hole in the small end of the adapter against the end of the collet.
Strike the drift smartly with a large hammer...Collet should move forward and release the tool....

Me i would not worry about that adapter too much, waste of time unless you got a full set of 20mm collets with the machine...stated above that you purchased an ER setup and you are much better off going that
route....Front close and collets that will run true..no messing about having to remove he Morse tools with ever tool change
You can do almost everything with the ER setup....
Tooling like drill chuck and boring head, just fit your tooling using straight shanks, and hold via an ER collet.

Cheers Ross
 
First off, welcome to the forum. Congratulations on your purchase, single phase plug and play without the later model apartment refrigerator size electrical cabinet, solid platform; What more could a guy ask for?
My first impression of the machine is it looks old enough to need manual gear changes rather than changes via two levers. It should have a some gears that are under the cover to change feed rates, never ran one with that set up but can't see any issues with it other than taking a little extra effort? Paint is optional for a machine and if important go ahead and do a paint job, someone may have been working on repainting it already? The adapter with the collet and draw bar and the horizontal arbor are most likely factory except for the draw bar. Everyone seems to have come to the conclusion that that style collet is not suitable for any real metal removal, for single lip cutters it is likely fine. The morse taper adapter with the collet and end mill in it would be thrown away here but that is because I have a complete set of tooling that fits with the factory draw bar installed. If you put that in your spindle the only way to remove it is to use a knock out bar and a mallet to get it out, not my style at all.
As I said right off, Tool room quality machine in a compact size; Make chips and appreciate a well thought out package.
Dan
 
Hey thanks for the input guys. Man this thing is just full of surprises..I opened the door to take a photo and see if you guys could determine what I've got under there and I saw and feed chart right inside the door.

So what do you guys make of it, can I speed up the feeds with what I've got?

I do have a nice little garage shop.. I'll take some photos later.
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G'Day Fella's,

Balibalistic, it looks like it has had some Fun.
But as long as it still works, thats all that matters.

D'oh!
Homer
 
The nicest solution would be to pitch the gears and rig up a DC drive motor to run the feeds.....Power supply and a speed pot and you are good.

Then you could have rapids by a push button that ran the motor at full speed...use the rheostat to set the feed rate...dial up or down..totally variable within the motor's speed range.

Could also make a set of gears, but think you will find that they are not standard...that way they can have all the different tooth counts mesh together with the fixed centers...
This is common on things like competition gearboxes (Hewland) where they want different ratios ,but the shafts are fixed....they monkey with the pitch diameters and tooth forms to make it work....
Makes it so that only a pinion and its mate can be run together....

Might be that someone like Singer may have a gear set, but to my money the DC drive would be much better.
Thinking perhaps a new door that became the motor mounting so the motor lived outside the base (more room)
Cheers Ross
 
Hi there welcome and enjoy your new machine!

A few notes from me:

- I am not sure that the stuck collet is a Deckel 355 collet, after all these rarely get stuck in the adapter plus it would have the buttress thread sticking out. I would assume this is a MT4-MT3 adapter, hence the bolt as drawbar as well.

- I have also not had the best luck with the 355 collets (I am talking about the collet that is inside the other adaptor, bottom middle in your pic). When I had my MT4 machine I opted for an ER32 MT4 collet chuck and never looked back. (though it ate up some useful Z headroom)

- regarding reversing the motor, mind you that when doing that you won't have feeds, there are some one-way clutches there (if it's deckel-like, which I assume it is). But it will be great for power tapping :) EDIT: it the motor is single phase then instant reversal for power tapping might not work out exactly as expected, proceed with care :)

- regarding feedbox, even if I had all the change gears, I would follow Ross's advice: unless one is so experienced and has it all figured out, trying different feeds and speeds is invaluable for getting nice results. Having to change gears in order to experiment on feeds....well, depends on your free time and patience...:)

Please share more pics of your workshop as promised!

BR,
Thanos
 
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Hmm, not a bad idea. I do have A DC 3/4hp motor wired to with a NEMA 4 dust proof controller. I had actually considered using this to run the spindle. As it seems over kill for the feeds. If anything I really only care to speed up the Z axis. To save my arm. All my other machines have either VFD and 3 phase AC motors or DC drives. So I'm spoiled for sure.

I'm currently having the issue that when running my machine in to speed its popping the breaker. It's an older 1.5 HP 110v. Could I get away with running this machine off a 3/4 HP DC motor. Add just leave it in high speed on the gear box?

I run my Rockwell knee mill from a 1hp DC motor and it has plenty power for what I do. I generally use 3/8 or smaller end mills. I build custom knives so I'm machining mostly Smaller parts with relatively light cuts. .040" depth of cut at most, in grade 5 titanium using carbide end mills. So I'm trying to rationalize using this little DC motor? Now if worst comes to worst I can use one of my new Leeson 220v single phase motors as I do have 220v in my shop. But I'd rather not if I can avoid it as I have my surface grind using those outlets.

Thoughts?

I can't wait for my collets to get here so I can get this Beast trammed and start making chips.
 
Now if worst comes to worst I can use one of my new Leeson 220v single phase motors as I do have 220v in my shop. But I'd rather not if I can avoid it as I have my surface grind using those outlets.

Thoughts?

.

One man shop , right?...Can't run more than one machine at a time unless you have some CNC gear....
Soooo Suggest you look into twist lock plugs and outlets....Run the machines using large gauge "SO" cable and the twist lock plugs, then just swap the power cord when you need to run a different machine.
Think of it as having an industrial extension cord, the difference being that at the machine end the cable is hard wired .

Think its a mistake to "under power" any machine tool....
That 3/4 hp DC motor is a bit overkill for the feed perhaps, but you already own it and having the variable feed on the machine via the DC motor will allow you to fine tune your cutting...resulting is better parts,
longer tool life and less wasted time. Something none of us ever seem to have enough of...

Likely the current setup is tripping the breaker on start up because the motor is small and it takes a big current draw to get the gear train and spindles moving..
Fit the 220 motor for the spindle drive (hopefully its under 5hp. ) and move forward.

Your Rockwell is a different animal form the Deckel.....The Deckel is running a full gear box for spindle speed change and two spindles...Not positive, but think that Alexander is running plain bearing spindles, so more'
frictional losses. You have to have enough power to overcome all the parasitic losses and still be able to do the work.....You have it seems the solution for both drive and feed at your fingertips....

Cheers Ross
 
Soooo Suggest you look into twist lock plugs and outlets....Run the machines using large gauge "SO" cable and the twist lock plugs, then just swap the power cord when you need to run a different machine.
Think of it as having an industrial extension cord, the difference being that at the machine end the cable is hard wired .
Not terribly more costly to do the machine-end with the other sex of Hubbells, too.

Now... especially if you MUST play musical chairs as I do - an appropriate length cord can be selected for the location and machine.

And/or the machine drags no cord when being "garaged" between uses.

Think its a mistake to "under power" any machine tool....

Most definitely.

CEMF exists. Better choice of motor loafs, regulates under load better, runs cooler, lives longer, less drama all around. Stall when in the cut is a RPITA, any machine-tool, even an ignorant bench grinder. Avoid that.
 
The Alexander was built in the U.K. By the importers of Deckel machines in the years before WW2. The political situation got worse and Alexander produced their own machine using the Deckel design and some components they had in stock.
You have the drop bracket for horizontal milling, is the overarm there too? The Deckel collets when used with the MT4 collets are OK for most work and are cheap to buy.
The feed gears are easy to make on the machine and will provide all the feeds you need.
The dog clutches for feeds will not run in reverse.
You have a fantastic machine, clean it up and adjust the gibs, then you will have a tool that is ready for the next 70 years.
 
Hi there, yes the overarm is here as well. I do have some accessories. I just haven't photographed them yet.

Ok so the fella who owned this was an older gentleman who passed away a few weeks ago and the machine is in pristine functional shape. The gibs are about as good as I could get them, all lubricants are topped up and where they should be. The cheap digital readout was installed properly and with care. Matter of fact, when I install a proper dro I'll be able to use his mounting brackets and Most everything. But to be honest I'm in no rush. This little 3 way dro gives me plenty functionality for now. I purchased this off his son I believe. Who just wanted it gone.. it cost me more in gas to drive two hours then to pay for the machine :). I believe I would like to build out get a hold of some of the change gears. Add I said may to run the Z at full speed.

Here's one of the reservoirs..I really enjoy studying old machines. Simple beauty.
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Is really like any advice on painting this ol beast. I don't think I really want to tear her apart. Just get her looking a little better..I will put her straight to work when my collets arrive.. I'll show some of my work if anyone cares to see.
 
Is really like any advice on painting this ol beast. I don't think I really want to tear her apart. Just get her looking a little better..I will put her straight to work when my collets arrive.. I'll show some of my work if anyone cares to see.

Just don't use anything expensive, toxic, "multi part" or even time-consuming, first go.

Basic clean-up, then brush-paint with Rustoleum or B-M "Super Spec" at the costliest.

Goal is it can be easily stripped if ever you go anal about a bitchin' great and life-long durable paint.

Until then, minimal time or money wasted that may have to come back off, anyway. Also dead-easy touch-up the simple-dumb paints vs two-part exotics.
 
Ok I got my er collet set with mt4 shall.. But I'd doesn't fit any of my draw bars.. Can I count in this to be self holding our will I need to make a draw bar?
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I don't even know what threads it takes.
 








 
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