Another Deckel In a Small Place
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  1. #1
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    Default Another Deckel In a Small Place

    Hi guys.

    When I started looking for a Deckel, I wanted an FP1 with 40 taper.

    When they eluded my grasp, I suddenly had the winning bid on a 1966 FP2.

    I ended up building a small shop around it. Just 12 square meters, 2.7m x 4.7m.

    A few days ago a friend told me an FP1 was for sale locally. I saw a few pictures - the dirtiest FP1 I have ever seen.

    But on a shelf lay the holy grail, the one made of unobtanium, you know it.....the FP1 riser block.
    img_20200209_231024.jpg

    No way I could buy it alone, he wanted to sell the machine with it. A High Speed Head came with it also.

    So I finally bought an FP1. Of course I took the vertical head, table and what was on the shelves, leaving the bare machine.

    It sounded ok and looks like it "just" needs a serious cleanup and lube job outside and in. That'll take some time - another project...

    But when I tried it without the vertical head, there was a sound I didn't like. Probably needs to be run, it hasn't been run in ages.

    The serial number I can see from my bad photo seems to be 541961/80 or something like that. I'm sure of the 54. Age, is it early 70's?
    img_20200209_174833.jpgimg_20200209_174846.jpg

    Now I have to move everything around in my shop, so I can squeeze the FP1 in with a shoehorn.

    Cheers
    Erik
    Last edited by Erik; 02-09-2020 at 11:31 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Hi Erik- congrats on the purchase

    keep us updated . I haven't been active here for awhile so I'll be watching the progress of the new toy

    Markus

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    Nice machine! Keep us posted with pictures!

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    Hi Erik,

    Congratulations, that looks like a nice machine, and it's a late generation one. The "dirt" reminds me of how my FP2 looked when I got it. The owner had used it for woodworking, but the brown stuff was not rust, just a mixture of oil and sawdust. It cleaned up nicely, and I think your new machine will as well.

    Did you ever get your FP2 fixed after its delivery accident?

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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  7. #5
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    Sounds like a great find and looks good it the photo.

    Andy

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    Hi guys, thanks for the thumbs up..

    For now, I have to get it home. And move my lathe, so I may have a place for the FP1.

    And then it's a project - of which I have quite a number already.

    But I believe it'll be a sweet machine, once I get there. Otherwise I hadn't bought it.

    The serial number is 54198/80 (/80 means metric, I think).

    Bruce, back then I fixed my FP2 with a new bronze nut and a thrust bearing - from uncle Franz, of course.

    Today I received some sticks of Silicium Bronze, so I can TIG braze stuff, that would be too hard to weld normally.

    I think I can use it to finally fix the broken Y-cover. Since I don't know if it's cast iron or cast steel..

    Cheers
    Erik

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  10. #7
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    Default FP1 footprint

    Hello Erik,

    Congratulations on your new FP1. I have also been following your posts about your FP2 (congratulations on a job well done on that as well).

    On the topic of accommodating your FP1 in a small workshop (with an existing FP2), given that I could end up being in a similar situation (I have a super-small workshop, and am currently on the lookout for an FP1), I was wondering how much space one would actually need for such a machine. The FP1 manual states that the footprint of the base is around 750x550mm and the table is 1200mm long. How much room/clearance do you actually need around the mill to allow for free/easy movement of the table, milling head, as well as easy/quick access to controls/levers on the sides?

    Thanks in advance.

    PS: If this is off-topic, and/or if I need to post it elsewhere, please let me know, and I will edit (or delete) my post accordingly.

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    Bruce, now this is a late FP1 (no, I can't have it - too bloody expensive):

    superfp1.jpg

    No worries about topic - I think it's very relevant. The 1.2 meter is the space needed totally x-wise.

    And I guess I'll need the same y-wise, but the proof will be in the puddin'.

    A friend of mine said recently: The roof is about to pop up from too much stuff inside.

    And still I want more... I am even looking at a small tool grinder that can sit atop the FP1 tooling cabinet.

    If I should get it, I'll switch the FP1 cabinet and the work table (that has stuff underneath).

    And I am looking at my large FP3 swivelling table - can I put it somewhere on top/between two small cabinets so I can use it as a table?

    At least I believe I have my lathe and the FP2 in their final positions, so I can mount the neccessary tools on the wall beside them.

    When I get my FP1 home, I'll put up some pictures and make some kind of drawing for you.

    Maybe someone will then suggest how I can get the best usage of my small space.

    Until later,

    Cheers
    Erik

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    Once you set it up, pictures along with a rough drawing would be very helpful. Thanks again for offering to help!

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    Erik:
    Although its not my favorite solution, often it is the only one that works for small spaces...
    Consider mounting the FP1 on rollers or casters. Make it movable. Mills do not need to be leveled and the FP1 is small enough that making it mobile might just ease your
    shrinking space (at least for the moment)
    If it has an electrical cabinet, consider making the connections to teh machine using quick connect connectors...so that you can mount the "box" anywhere, even in the ceiling, and have extended cables to connect....

    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Maybe someone will then suggest how I can get the best usage of my small space.
    I don't remember seeing pics of your shop so it's somewhat difficult to give you any adivce, but here are several solutions that worked for me :


    • Consider putting your FP in an angled position with the non operator side orientated toward the wall. It will save you a LOT of space compared to the standard position where the machine is put back to the wall.
    • Try to make machines share the space as much as possible (for example, I did put my FP3 right back to back with my lathe - I don't care if the ram comes above the lathe when cranked backward, when it would imply a lot of lost space if the machine was put back to the wall. Or put the machine in such a way that they share their operator footprints).
    • Use the corners of your shop ! Corners sometimes allow interesting arrangments depending upon the kind of machine considered.
    Last edited by TNB; 02-19-2020 at 01:40 AM.

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  19. #12
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    This could do it.

    shop2.jpg

    A very low tech approach, napkin-like.

    I'll get more wall space for tools above my workbench.

    And a common place for tooling for both lathe and FP2 on the wall next to them.

    I'll mount a few small bench grinders onto the door, so I can swing out the door

    and then grind tools and stuff outside without contaminating inside.

    Anyone got better ideas, please write. <thumbsup.gif>

    It won't be fun to empty and move FP1 cabinet and worktable with tool drawers,

    so I'd rather do it just once (for now, anyway).

    I don't think casters for the FP1 is such a great idea on a plywood floor (?),

    but it looks like it can fit in there.

    Cheers
    Erik

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    This could do it.
    On the positive side, when you have to walk across the shop to get a tool, it's not far!

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    Hi Erik. Another Deckel In a Small Place
    I can't recall, - but do you have the big electric cabinet for both machines?
    Do you need those?

    I have removed mine, and instead mounted a 1/20 the size, VFD on the wall.
    Maybe this could be done on yours as well, and also save some space?

    As I mentioned when we last spoke, you should get a bigger shop Another Deckel In a Small Place
    Go the 20 or 40 foot shipping container way. It's a cheap and easy way to get a good size shop fast. Another Deckel In a Small Place

    Nothing more annoying than have a crowded shop, where you need to move things before you can use them. Og maybe lack space for larger parts.



    Colchester - The world turns on Colchester lathes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Erik:
    Although its not my favorite solution, often it is the only one that works for small spaces...
    Consider mounting the FP1 on rollers or casters. Make it movable. .....

    If it has an electrical cabinet, consider making the connections to teh machine using quick connect connectors......
    Cheers Ross
    I'm a fairly recent FP1 owner and my own "mobility" solution is a sturdy pallet built with 2x4's that I can move (very rarely) with a narrow and short pallet jack, 21" x 36".

    As for the electrical cabinet, I find it really annoying. It's a pain to drag around when I I move the mill. I thought about quick connects, but I think there are like 7 or 8 leads. Not sure what is available for that.

    I really wish I could reduce that box to something like 12" x 12" x 8" or less so I could perhaps mount it on the back of the mill, right above the motor. I'm curious as to how easy it is to just keep the essential and get rid of the useless stuff in there.


    Jacques

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    I am not sure this applies to your shop, but I found that I used the space quite effectively by putting the deckel in the center of the floor, and I put the lathe behind it.

    Like this, the electrical cabinet went behind the lathe and behind the the lathe and there it is out of the way quite nicely, I also added another outlet to the cabinet and plugged the lathe into it, so I saved myself a 3ph wall outlet.



    This is an old photo, the tools on the wall have all been moved away and I have a small tool cabinet in the corner and other tools and shelves on the wall now.

    My shop's main area is 4070 x 8200 mm then I have another room that is 3000 x 3100mm.

  25. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    ... It's a pain to drag around when I I move the mill. I thought about quick connects, but I think there are like 7 or 8 leads. Not sure what is available for that.

    ...
    My ALG had a quick and very safe connector for the machine-cabinet connection, similar to these:

    Industrial Plugs & Sockets - Simbal

    I think they are available in multi pin/high-amperage flavors, you'll find what you need for sure.

    BR,
    Thanos

  26. #18
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    I finally picked it up yesterday (saturday).

    Borrowed an autotrailer and went to the former farm, where I bought it and it still was.

    I had strengthened a standard europallet and also fitted a good quality plywood plate to it.

    (the holes for the FP1 are 428 mm and 628 mm apart and do not fit onto the palletwood anyway)

    At home I had the help of a friend and we pulled it with a come-along (edit: Leapfrogging) on plywood plates (on dirt and bad concrete).

    The biggest challenge was getting it up the step into my shop. I have tried two methods, and I chose the safest.

    Building a ramp with 3 sturdy beams, fixed to a plate on top. Helped by a winch, fasteded to the rafters.

    Now (sunday) it's finally off the pallet and in place - on new rubber feet... A good week-end with no disasters (challenges, yes).

    Photos to come, when I start cleaning it.

    Cheers
    Erik
    Last edited by Erik; 03-09-2020 at 12:49 AM.

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