Anyone here see the Emco FB4 at HGR in real life ? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Today found yet another Emco brochure I forgot I had....dated 2005, Martin sent this years ago. Surprising the FB4 was not the largest model.... In addition to increased travels, the FB5 and 6 appear to have power draw bars
    img_1358-1.jpg img_1359-1.jpg

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    Oh boy... HGR just got a load of Deckels.

    Used Friedrich Deckel CNC Mill | HGR Industrial Surplus

    Used Deckel Maho CNC VMC | HGR Industrial Surplus

    Used Deckel Maho CNC VMC | HGR Industrial Surplus

    HGR is funny... deckel, deckel, deckel, four dollar white board, twenty dollar file cabinet...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizingkid View Post
    Oh boy... HGR just got a load of Deckels.

    Used Friedrich Deckel CNC Mill | HGR Industrial Surplus

    Used Deckel Maho CNC VMC | HGR Industrial Surplus

    Used Deckel Maho CNC VMC | HGR Industrial Surplus

    HGR is funny... deckel, deckel, deckel, four dollar white board, twenty dollar file cabinet...
    Man that's crazy. They got these from a shop in NC that was closing down. The shop posted them on craigslist, all for one money (basically asking for offers).

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    Where is the 45° table for the FP42NC? If that is lost, the machine's value is a parts machine at best. It does seem remarkably clean for its age, and does not scream "repainted." I noticed the toolchanger carousel on the second machine is buggered. I wonder what happened?

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    Like the previous poster mentioned those 3 Deckels along with another large AXA mill all came out of a shop in NC that needed them gone (Focke & Co.). I had worked out a deal on the 3 machines but I could not take the AXA mill because it was so large. HGR must have came around and got the deal because they took them all.

    The purchasing contact who was handling the deal said they had thrown out the 45 degree table some time back while cleaning out the shop. Both of the DMU50's were in working condition and the one did have a broken tool changer carousel. They are a German company so the machines were shipped over from one of their German locations thus all the manuals are in German.

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    They tossed out the table??????

    I really hope whoever took the trash out that day was savvy enough to list it for sale somewhere else.

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    Those traveling column Deckels are a bit of a white elephant, so there are probably 45° tables kicking around Europe, at least, for a price and shipping. As is, the machine is all set for making accurate picture frame miters.

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    I'd agree with rklopp on the CNC version of the travelling column Deckel's, not sure I'd agree on an FP3L. Admittedly biased here as I have one. Definately agree the machine is not useable without its 45deg table- Peter in Holland has/had the fully adjustable version for sale. I only have the fixed table. I couldn't justify the ferry ride for Peter's table to this continent, maybe others could?

    L7

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    Quote Originally Posted by metal4130 View Post
    Like the previous poster mentioned those 3 Deckels along with another large AXA mill all came out of a shop in NC that needed them gone (Focke & Co.).
    Interesting.... I bought two Deckel FP2's that came from Focke perhaps a dozen years ago. A first generation and second generation with long range head. Didn't buy them direct but from an ex Focke employee who probably got them for nothing. Weird situation as the guy had all sorts of interesting Euro machines for sale in a warehouse near Winston Salem, but he didn't really know machine tools that well and his prices were nutty.. except on the Deckels.

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    One mystery of this FB4 is the spindle speed data plate shows the expected 2,500 max RPM but also shows a chart for no. 30 tooling at 8,000 RPM. Seeing as there is no way to orient the gear levers to actually achieve 8000 RPM I had no clue what that was all about.... until I saw the below ad for a sistership. Turns out there was a high speed spindle cartridge...presumably with integral planetary gearing...

    Emco FB-4 Mill - Emco Maier Machine Tools - Asset Exchange Corp.

    Hope these guys have a manual for the DRO !

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    I had a high speed angle head for a Tos FN once Also with had a double speed chart
    And this machine is a Tos design
    So I suspect that it is a completly different angle head and not just a spindle cartridge you have to swap

    Peter

    PS
    Looking at the next post I was wrong with my assumption
    Last edited by Peter from Holland; 04-09-2019 at 05:55 AM.

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    Don this is a video of what I think is a similar machine showing some of the accessories. It shows a cartrige spindle.

    YouTube

    Charles

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    We had the cartridge for the TOS I was assigned to. It worked great but in a job shop environment it was too time consuming to change to use frequently. I think in Czechoslovakia when this was designed perhaps this wasn’t an issue?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBlair View Post
    Don this is a video of what I think is a similar machine showing some of the accessories. It shows a cartrige spindle.

    YouTube

    Charles
    Yeah I happened to be looking at the parts manual today and sure enough it shows a separate cartridge spindle with internal planetary gearing. I was wondering what the two extra black knurled knobs on the vertical head were for....apparently something to do with changing spindle cartridges. Frustrating to think it's entirely possible my machine had one of these but it got left on a shelf somewhere.

    Amazing video... how on earth did you run across that ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by n_griff View Post
    We had the cartridge for the TOS I was assigned to. It worked great but in a job shop environment it was too time consuming to change to use frequently. I think in Czechoslovakia when this was designed perhaps this wasn’t an issue?

    Seems like it would be easier than changing heads....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post

    Amazing video... how on earth did you run across that ??
    That's Laurie and his dad from the "Hydraulic Press Channel", run by a Finnish couple (Laurie and Anni) who got started just showing stuff getting crushed in their ~100 ton press. It's gotten quite popular, and they sometimes have some very interesting videos. Watching how different plastics fail under load can be enlightening...

    YouTube

    [Granted, many of their videos are just sort of goofy, but still entertaining]

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    Below is the only info in my manual on changing the vertical spindle cartridge...which I can't actually read...translations anyone ?

    img_1479.jpg

    11 and 12 are the mystery knobs I mentioned earlier....

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    Quote Originally Posted by metal4130 View Post
    Like the previous poster mentioned those 3 Deckels along with another large AXA mill all came out of a shop in NC that needed them gone (Focke & Co.). I had worked out a deal on the 3 machines but I could not take the AXA mill because it was so large. HGR must have came around and got the deal because they took them all.

    The purchasing contact who was handling the deal said they had thrown out the 45 degree table some time back while cleaning out the shop. Both of the DMU50's were in working condition and the one did have a broken tool changer carousel. They are a German company so the machines were shipped over from one of their German locations thus all the manuals are in German.
    I own the AXA. I'm not too keen on the way this deal went down. I am local to Focke and co. I inspected the machines,and made an offer on them. HGR Surplus outbid me and they had to figure rigging and transpo to ohio. The purchaser at focke kept me dumb until the deal with hgr was made. When he did reach out and let me know a buyer from ohio had won the bid I had him pass my contact to the buyer. You see the AXA is 20k pounds and has to have its own truck for transpo,so I knew they would want to drop that bad boy. Hgr sent me an invoice within the hour,and I picked up the beast the following Monday. 4000 mm X Tavel I'm still smiling.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails axa.jpg  

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  21. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Below is the only info in my manual on changing the vertical spindle cartridge...which I can't actually read...translations anyone ?



    11 and 12 are the mystery knobs I mentioned earlier....
    Not positive about this but I think #11 is the quill retention bolt and #12 is the quill lock.

    TIP: Make sure the quill can't fall out
    - turn the quill handle (#8) until the quill bottoms out
    - unscrew bolt #11 approximately 2mm
    - advance the quill handle so the quill comes out more
    - secure the quill handle against the quill spring pressure by tightening bolt #12 (quill stop)
    - withdraw bolt #11 so you can remove the quill (note- quill can fall out, so make sure you have the quill blocked or secured)

    Reassembly in reverse order of disassembly

    Note: clean and lightly re-oil upon reassembly.

    The very bottom paragraph is a note that the bearings are marked with their tolerance and size and to use that for reference when ordering replacements.

    Not an exact translation but hopefully you find this helpfull.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Below is the only info in my manual on changing the vertical spindle cartridge...which I can't actually read...translations anyone ?.
    Sorry, I did this then saw that it was already done. Here it is anyway:

    Changing quill (SK40) to the high-speed quill (SK30)

    Disassembly
    Caution: pay attention that the quill does not fall out during disassembly.

    - By turning the crank (8) run the quill into the stop

    - Pull out the safety bolt (11) about 2mm

    - Run the quill out further.

    - Secure the nut (12) to ensure that the crank (8) is not pulled
    by spring pressure back into it's original position.

    - Remove the safety bolt (11) and remove the quill (hold on firmly).

    Reassembly:
    Similar to disassembly, but in the opposite order

    Caution:
    Clean and oil either quill after removal and before reassembly

    Attention: The tolerance dimensions of the outside quill diameter are
    engraved onto the quill face. In any purchase orders be sure to
    provide these dimensions.

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