What's new
What's new

Custom Deckel Rusnok Head Mount

drcoelho

Stainless
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Location
Los Altos
I am planning on (as an alternative to the Deckel high speed head) for an FP1 to construct a custom head mount for a Rusnok (similar to bridgeport M ) head. What kind of steel would you all recommend for this, and how flat (and is flaking needed) for contact with horizontal ways?
 
I am planning on (as an alternative to the Deckel high speed head) for an FP1 to construct a custom head mount for a Rusnok (similar to bridgeport M ) head. What kind of steel would you all recommend for this, and how flat (and is flaking needed) for contact with horizontal ways?

I'm looking at their Model 80 head as weighing only 57 lbs. and having a 1/3 HP motor, max speed of 5,200 RPM, collets limited to Type 100 (looks like DA to me?) or Type Y (which I happen to have).

The price list is still dated June 2013, at over $2,780 for the Model 80 or $2,840 for the 80M. Bolt-right-on used Deckel heads have sold for less, so ...you will be working with an older Rusnok head, salvaged?

If you already have the older head, is it any different in configuration or motor size, hence mass from the website info for the model 80 or 80V head?
 
I'm mounting Rusnok model 80 head which has retro-fitted 1/2 HP 3 phase motor, bringing total weight of head+motor to about 90 lbs.

So, the question remains, what kind of steel is recommended to create the custom mount for this scenario?
 
I'm mounting Rusnok model 80 head which has retro-fitted 1/2 HP 3 phase motor, bringing total weight of head+motor to about 90 lbs.

So, the question remains, what kind of steel is recommended to create the custom mount for this scenario?

That's become rather heavy, relative to some alternatives. IF I were to do this, I would use Cast Iron, rather than steel.

I'd mill the base of a salvaged vertical mill's dovetail ram to fit the Deckel's top.

But I wouldn't do this. Cheaper and easier alternatives for either of my mills exist, and if I had a Deckel, I'd use Deckel.
 
That's good feedback.

Do you know what the weight of the Deckel FP1 high speed head is?

No, but I'd perhaps bet real money it is lighter than the up-motored Rusnok. Perhaps a LOT lighter. More to the point Deckel would have done their homework ages ago as to flex and resonances.

That was a major part of why they are regarded as highly as they are. Not by putting vitamins into their Iron nor piling-on more of it. Simply being more careful how much of it was put where, and whyso.

FWIW-not-much, ISTR even the BirdPort round-ram M-head was only 70 lbs and what was later back-named the "J1" not a lot different. 2J was the first one as really weighed much.

Page Two: Just out of curiosity, carried an electronic scale downstairs. NO QUILL, but I could put an arbitrary-HP 50-Taper head up for a mere 51 lbs + mount. Motor at the other end of a belt, back over on the mill, of course.

I'd just have to stamp its ration book that it was no longer employed as a T&C grinder workhead!

:)
 
I weighed the Rusnok head again, only 64 lb.

If I could find an FP1 high speed head I'd grab it, but having trouble find one.

My theory about using the Rusnok is that this is a little mill intended to do lightweight research lab type work, and this is all I would do with it, light weight higher speed cutting, basically very little load on the mount or the Deckel....and it seems as long as the horizontal mount is robust I should be ok, don't see how this could possibly overload the Deckel.
 
I tracked down my old Deckel FP1 operating instructions and found the Deckel specs below...given Rusnok head at 64 lb plus some more for the mount, probably will end up being very close to the Deckel flavor at 80.5 lb

High Speed Vertical Spindle Head
max collet capacity: 0.5"
spindle vertical travel: 2.36"
range of six spindle speeds: 1900 to 6000 rpm
motor: 0.37 KW
motor speed: 2800 rpm
tilting range of head: 45 degrees
max distance, spindle axis to column face: 14.17"
net weight: 80.5 lb

I see good availability of the Deckel FP1 horizontal over-arm attachment, thinking maybe I could adapt one of those to mount the Rusnok...

I believe using a salvaged vertical mill mount would be problematic as that has all sorts of inerds related to the gearing relationship to the Deckel inner gears. The horizontal over-arm mount is super simple, just the dovetail.
 
I tracked down my old Deckel FP1 operating instructions and found the Deckel specs below...given Rusnok head at 64 lb plus some more for the mount, probably will end up being very close to the Deckel flavor at 80.5 lb
I thot you said you were at 90 Avoir, up-motored Rusnok?

I see good availability of the Deckel FP1 horizontal over-arm attachment, thinking maybe I could adapt one of those to mount the Rusnok...
For no more than it masses, I could probably put a Burke #4 horizontal up as a "vertical head" with not a lot more than an ignorant angle plate.

This could get sillier, yet!
I believe using a salvaged vertical mill mount would be problematic as that has all sorts of inerds related to the gearing relationship to the Deckel inner gears. The horizontal over-arm mount is super simple, just the dovetail.

Not aware of any gears in a BirdPort nor a Republic Lagun dovetail ram ..etc.

Lot to be said in that you have a Deckel, it remains a Deckel.

Leave the lumpen proletariat and their orphans to bender re-assignment surgery and Frankensodery.
 
Ha, funny you mention the Burke #4, I've already got one setup with a Rusnok head....

FYI, I wasn't referring to the Bridgeport M having gearing, I was referring to your suggestion of using a Deckel Vertical Head mount and re-purposing, the issue with this mount is that the Vertical head has gears that run down through the mount into the body of the Deckel. As mentioned, I think the Deckel horizontal over-arm mount would be simplier/easier...no matter, your idea of retro-fitting an existing Deckel mount is a fine one...

But, back to being more serious....I DO appreciate your "purest" view of this whole situation, BUT, what I need/want/desire is a high-speed head......and unless you've got Deckel one to sell me, I'm back to putting my little Rusnok head on there.....

All your input has been SUPER helpful !!!!
 
Ha, funny you mention the Burke #4, I've already got one setup with a Rusnok head....
Burke or Nichols are not bad hosts for those little Ruskrats.
FYI, I wasn't referring to the Bridgeport M having gearing, I was referring to your suggestion of using a Deckel Vertical Head mount and re-purposing,
But I did not. From the outset it was a Deckel-on-Deckel ELSE Rusnok-on-modified-BirdPort - or larger Tiawanese clone - part-out ram I had in mind as a "metal donor".
I'm back to putting my little Rusnok head on there.....
Stayed about 18 years in a marriage like that once before just scrapping it. More head games than vertical head.

Second 28 years have been sooooo much better I wish I'd written-off the first head-case many years sooner, else never started!

Sometimes fixation on a hunk of metal can shape sub-optimal choices just as easily p...artners can.

:)
 
Hm, Rusnok on Bridgeport, never would have occurred to me to do that ;)

Now you really messed me up, starting to consider the parallelism between my ex-wife and my machines....

But, truth be told, I am very attached to my Rusnok's AND my Deckel, so there must be a way :) And, you could really consider the Rusnok a part-time lover because she can be put on the shelf whenever acting up...
 
Hm, Rusnok on Bridgeport, never would have occurred to me to do that ;)

Now you really messed me up, starting to consider the parallelism between my ex-wife and my machines....

But, truth be told, I am very attached to my Rusnok's AND my Deckel, so there must be a way :) And, you could really consider the Rusnok a part-time lover because she can be put on the shelf whenever acting up...

Well. I had meant using just the parts, but OTOH, if one HAS a BirdPort, rear-mount the Rusnok where a slotter or cherrying head would attach, and have "the usual suspect" R8-ing at medium RPM on one end and the higher speed Rusnok just a 180-degree turret rotation away.

This is similar to my Quartet when rigged with the K&T angle head (or the K&T slotter), its own vertical head at the other end of the dovetail ram. Both hang UNDER the ram, dovetailed to a plate on the vertical face of the turret and driven by the 5 HP 40-taper horizontal spindle.

I could add a high-speed head on the extreme end of the ram it with some surgery - or even off the dovetails, offset to left or right OR out the end (hmmm....). It has no machined mount tab on the end as BirdPorts do.

Far too much else on my Dance Card to even put that in the queue.

If high speed is the need, small is implied, and I have X-Y-Z on the Panto-Engraver arredy.
 
I see good availability of the Deckel FP1 horizontal over-arm attachment, thinking maybe I could adapt one of those to mount the Rusnok.

That seems like a good idea. If you can't find one in the USA, they cost 85 Euro on German Ebay and sometimes you can get them for less (maybe Peter has one for sale):
Gegenhalter gebr. grun fur Deckel FP1 Frasmaschine | eBay
I'm pretty sure that they weigh less than 30kg so with shipping you are looking at 150-200 Euro
 
I would not use a overarm but the dove tail part of a slotting head or angle head
One can remove all the gears and the head itselve Now you have mounting surface with swivel for your Rusnok head

Perhaps I have something Have to look tomorrow

Peter
 
I would not use a overarm but the dove tail part of a slotting head or angle head
One can remove all the gears and the head itselve Now you have mounting surface with swivel for your Rusnok head

Perhaps I have something Have to look tomorrow

Peter

I would not use the over arm either!

I have a couple that I’m going to sell, but the casting is hollow and IMHO not a good choice?

I just sold an older Deckel high speed head, so they are available!
I would do what Peter recommended, gut a Deckel head and adapt the Rusnok to it ......although I think you are way further ahead using the Deckel high speed head with the 40 taper spindle to match your machine?

One big thing to consider is the centerline from the spindle to the mounting flange, you will need every bit of space you can get!

Good luck!

Kevin
 
I would not use a overarm but the dove tail part of a slotting head or angle head
One can remove all the gears and the head itselve Now you have mounting surface with swivel for your Rusnok head

Perhaps I have something Have to look tomorrow

Peter

+1

That would be half of perfect, IMNSHO.

The other half would be to shed the heavy electric motor, cone pulleys, and tiny Vee belts on the Rusnok head itself.

I'd want a one-stage PolyVee or Gilmer belted ratio and a lightweight air motor, exhaust air aimable to clear chip, optionally with coolant introduced.

Second choice a higher speed but also still much lighter electric motor. Possibly robbed from a mass-market power tool, such as a router.

The legacy Rusnok head isn't really "high speed" for modern Carbides, Cermets, CBN, etc in the small diameter cutters it is limited to.

Might need an upgrade to ceramic spindle bearings. Or not even. Need not push all the way into HSM turf, just roughly double the OEM RPM.
 








 
Back
Top