Deckel 2037

Peter from Holland · May 23, 2018

Discussed here a couple of times
Now I have one
What would be a fair asking price

Peter

ballen · May 23, 2018

Dear Peter,

Nice table!! I have a similar table lined up to buy from a friend but have not settled on a price and collected it. I am curious, does this 2037 table have dial indicators that you can use to return to the tram position? Or are there no dial indicators on this model?

Cheers,
Bruce

AlfaGTA · May 23, 2018

Believe that is a "No" to having indicators.
Cheers Ross

ballen · May 23, 2018

AlfaGTA said:
Believe that is a "No" to having indicators.

Would it be possible to fit indicators to this by adding some brackets or pockets in the right place? Or is there no decent way to do this? It seems like those "return to tram" indicators would be very useful, but the Deckel tables that have them built in (like the 2038) are too big/heavy for my 1960s FP2.

bsg · May 23, 2018

Peter, the two 2037’s that you shipped to me a few years ago....I paid $1000 us for one at auction and IIRC $2000 us for the second one I bought from Martin P?

I would say the low end would be $1500 us?

Bruce, the 2037 tables were not equipped with tram indicators. I would think you could implement some sort of indicators similar to the 2038 tables, but I would think it would be huge task? The two table designs are totally different! You may want to look for one of the 2038 tables for a FP2NC, it’s a smaller version, unsure if the table will have the same t-slot spacing for mounting to your machine?

If you take on the task of putting indicators on the 2037 table, please let us know, I would definitely be interested!

Kevin

TNB · May 24, 2018

There's very little room to fit indicators on those tables. The 2038 is MUCH bigger.

Might be easier to figure out a way to do it than to find a baby 2038 though ! Those are rare as hen's teeth and/or über-expensive.

But I suppose it would be feasible, providing you'd accept a setup "à la" Aciera F5 with indicators hanging in awkward positions (most likely underneath instead of on the sides)

Peter from Holland · May 24, 2018

If you want to set the table straigt quickly you could also bolt the whole machine level to the floor and then use a proper machinelevel to adjust the table

Peter

ballen · May 24, 2018

Kevin, Tien: I did not realize that there was more than one model/design of the "2038" table. How can I tell them apart?

Peter: the level idea is a good one. Unfortunately only my lathe is bolted to the concrete slab of my workshop. The mill and other tools sit on top of 25mm OSB on top of 50mm of hard foam on top of the concrete. So it's not stable enough for leveling as you describe.

TNB · May 24, 2018

ballen said:
Kevin, Tien: I did not realize that there was more than one model/design of the "2038" table. How can I tell them apart?

Easily : both are labelled "2038", but actually they aren't the same.

22867d1273876538-deckel-2038-universal-table-2038_tables_nc.jpg

The subject has already been discussed here

Should you want to buy one, I seem to recall Don must have a yellow one that has been sitting on a pallet somewhere for years...

ballen · May 24, 2018

OK, so:

2038-800 is the smaller FP2 version
2038-900 is the smaller FP2 version with a digital encoder
2038-1100 is the larger version with the smaller table (with a digital encoder)
2038-1100 is the larger version with the larger table (with a digital encoder)

Did I get this right?

TNB · May 24, 2018

There must be at least one error in your list. But even then, it may not be "simple" as that...

Certain big tables don't have the digital encoder to begin with (and I don't think all encoder tables have the same plug and wiring - I know of at least one table that did not count correctly with a VRZ560 counter - I seem to recall it was from an FP3A).

Then most tables will have 14mm T-slots, but I believe some have the same size as found on manual machines (FP1 to 3 at least) and may be a 90mm spacing between slots.

Some tables have 63mm spacing and 5 slots on the mounting plate, whereas others have the 90mm/3 slots pattern that fits manual machines...

So beware !

Better check each point individually before deciding the table will fit your machine.

I just found a pic of the small version btw :

Incidentally, it's Don's yellow table I was refering to in my previous post.
More about those tables here

Thinking about it, there's something curious in the leaflet above, in that that they claim the clamping area to be wider than the table surface, lengthwise...
Never noticed that before and wonder how they do their calculations. Unless the clamping surface dimension would be the one of the mounting plate ? :confused:

Milacron · May 24, 2018

TNB said:
Then most tables will have 14mm T-slots, but I believe some have the same size as found on manual machines (FP1 to 3 at least) and may be a 90mm spacing between slots.

Some tables have 63mm spacing and 5 slots on the mounting plate, whereas others have the 90mm/3 slots pattern that fits manual machines...

Incidentally, it's Don's yellow table I was refering to in my previous post.
More about those tables here

I bought a parts machine Deckel FP2NC in Detroit perhaps a decade ago for $500 mostly for that table....still have the machine (less some parts I have robbed off it over the years). Had fantasies of adding the table to my 1990 FP2A w/ Dialog 11 control. Never got around to it, then sold the machine....then sold the table to a member here who can reveal himself if he wishes

The mounting spacing is for NC and A machines only...if it would have fit on a manual FP I would have kept it. (Thermite, I know you are now dying to get into Captain Obvious mode and start talking about making an adapter plate, but hold your horses :stirthepot:

)

One difference besides the smaller size is the rotary table gearbox is 2 speed versus the usual 3 speed on the standard universal table. Also note how the rotary tram indicator is recessed into the casting rather than outside of it as on the standard table. Curiously that drawing is not showing the two tilt tram indicators, which it does have.

And yes, rare as hen's teeth....never seen another one for sale, not even in Germany. And whoever painted it yellow should have been shot at dawn without cigarette.

TNB · May 24, 2018

Milacron said:
The mounting spacing is for NC and A machines only...if it would have fit on a manual FP I would have kept it.

The mounting of an NC or A table on a manual FP is no big deal though, and barely noticeable once on the machine.

Four holes to drill and a new slot at the back of the mounting plate, and you're done.

The need to get those big tables off the machine arises probably less offen than with less sophisticated ones, so I supposed having bolt holes instead of slots wouldn't hurt (plus after thinking about how to do it pretty extensively, those holes came up as the only viable option from a mechanical standpoint).

Travail modification platine fixation table 2038 (4).jpg

Travail modification platine fixation table 2038 (8).jpg

Milacron · May 24, 2018

TNB said:
The mounting of an NC or A table on a manual FP is no big deal though, and barely noticeable once on the machine.

Four holes to drill and a new slot at the back of the mounting plate, and you're done.

The need to get those big tables off the machine arises probably less offen than with less sophisticated ones, so I supposed having bolt holes instead of slots wouldn't hurt (plus after thinking about how to do it pretty extensively, those holes came up as the only viable option from a mechanical standpoint).

Not a bad idea T. Below is a "table adaption" I've noted here before where a friend of mine in Southern CA adapted the ultimate Deckel universal table...one meant for the gigantic FP4, to a smaller manual Deckel. Note the extra slots he had to mill, the extreme loss of Z "daylight", and the weight of it probably exceeding Deckel maximum specs by a bit !

TNB · May 24, 2018

I don't know for your friend but if you look closely at the holes I had to drill on my mounting plate, you'll see that in my case, the milling of extra slots was not an option due to the interference between the NC and manual machines slots pattern.

Milacron · May 24, 2018

TNB said:
I don't know for your friend but if you look closely at the holes I had to drill on my mounting plate, you'll see that in my case, the milling of extra slots was not an option due to the interference between the NC and manual machines slots pattern.

Plus many universal tables have "curved" mounts (see below) that would make your hole drill option not practical. But it would have worked for my yellow table so maybe I should be dope slapped for selling it ! OTOH, I HATE painting machines or machine accessories, and the standard universal looks nice enough on my FP2, so what the heck.

22858d1273839060-deckel-2038-universal-table-tafelc2038.jpg

218636d1516723099-deckel-2038-universal-table-found-scrapmetal-dealer-img_0003.jpg

AlfaGTA · May 24, 2018

Some additional information on the tables.....

First off I am the mystery owner of the small version 2038 table...The one that Dion used to own.

Color is terrible , but the encoder works as it should..

About the encoders....
Most 2038 tables came with 9000 line rotary encoders...this seems to be more or less a standard and it is what the FP-NC's used...And its what most DRO's accurately read.

The FP3A when fitted with the full universal table had a rotary encoder that used 7200 lines.
You must have a DRO that can work with that line count in order to read correctly....

There is a work around...for example the Positip 855 can display 4 full axis..It can't however read the 7200 line encoder correctly, but it can "scale" ..so using the 4th axis set to read 9000 lines and scaled (1.25) you can interpret the proper rotation and get an accurate readout....(yes i have verified this and indeed it works perfectly...as guessed i also have a table with the 7200 line encoder, thanks Peter)

Think there is least one 3 axis display that can handle the 7200 count encoder.directly (ND780?)..but its limited to 3 axis....And of course the current 6 axis Positip can use the 7200 line encoder directly without doing any scaling....

T:
Thanks for posting those photos of the mods to the 2038...

Milacron:
Don't feel too bad...the "small" 2038 really does not have the space on the mounting flange that was available to "T" on his conversion....The indicator for the side to side tilt is right where the bolts need to go on the right side.

Cheers Ross

TNB · May 24, 2018

Milacron said:
Plus many universal tables have "curved" mounts (see below) that would make your hole drill option not practical.

Not sure, but it seems to me that the curved mount is a characteristic of manual machines tables.
So it may not be as easy to adapt a table meant for a manual machine to a A or NC machine, as the opposite.

Speaking of wich, I don't know if any of you saved a big size copy of this picture everyone will remember :

Obviously, Sean went the "extra-slots" route when he mated his 2038 table to the FP3.
Would be interesting to enlarge that area of the pictures but judging from the pic as is, there doesn't seem to be much meat between the slots...

Oooops, seems like we hijacked Peter's thread a bit !

Milacron · May 24, 2018

TNB said:
Not sure, but it seems to me that the curved mount is a characteristic of manual machines tables.
So it may not be as easy to adapt a table meant for a manual machine to a A or NC machine, as the opposite.

Interesting point..however my FP2 manual universal table has straight side mounts, so not sure what to think there.

In contrast, my previous Activ FP2..... the one that Ross used to own...also had standard manual universal table, but with curved side mounts.

TNB · May 24, 2018

Seems like 2038 tables are an infinite topic of discussion eh ?

Beaten to death and still full of unsolved mysteries...

Deckel 2037

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