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    Default Deckel Accessory ID

    I've seen these before somewhere, but I am having trouble identifying what these Deckel FP2 accessories are for:

    fs517319-911733.jpg

    I've pored through the pictures on lathes.uk, and looked through Singer's site, but I can find them. Anyone here familiar with them?

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    The rear item is a gauge block holder for x axis travel. Pre dro Deckel thinking.

    Front item looks to me more like a taper turning attachment rod holder from a lathe.

    L7

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    Ah, I see. The gage block holder mounted like this:

    deckel-fp2-gauge-blocks-holder.jpg


    (Pic originally posted here by TNB)

    And you're sure the other piece is not for an FP2?

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    Pretty sure the grey item is not Deckel. Looks to me from what is visible that its a overarm support for a machine that uses round bar style overarms....
    Could be Abene or early Milwaukee.....or ????

    Note style of the clamping bolts in the part in question and the clamp bolts on the overarm shown in photo #3 of post #5 here! look very similar....Note round overarm.
    Questions from a new Abene VHF-3 Owner #3979 (1968)

    Indeed the other item is the measuring rod /gauge block holder for the "X" axis.
    Cheers Ross

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    I'm fairly sure Ross has it right (as usual), that seems to be an Abene over arm arbor support. Let me know if you planning on selling it. Please send me a pm.

    Thanks
    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hall View Post
    I've seen these before somewhere, but I am having trouble identifying what these Deckel FP2 accessories are for:

    fs517319-911733.jpg

    I've pored through the pictures on lathes.uk, and looked through Singer's site, but I can find them. Anyone here familiar with them?
    Did you buy that one?

    Was watching to see what it went for, looked like a deal for someone.

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    Nobody bid on it as far as I can tell. I was sorely tempted, but by the time I added in rigging, trucking across the country, and dealing with the machine voltage, it was not quite as worthwhile. Besides, it looks like I have found something suitable in Japan, and it costs about the same to ship as the god-awful prospect of domestic LTL shipping (another reason I hesitated).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hall View Post
    Nobody bid on it as far as I can tell. I was sorely tempted, but by the time I added in rigging, trucking across the country, and dealing with the machine voltage, it was not quite as worthwhile. Besides, it looks like I have found something suitable in Japan, and it costs about the same to ship as the god-awful prospect of domestic LTL shipping (another reason I hesitated).
    For the 6300 Canadian pesos it sold for, just over $4800US, along with the dividing head that was sitting in the chip tray, I figger there was a lot of room for expenses on top of the purchase price.

    Had I gotten serious about it, I had considered simply pulling the motor off and bolting up a 220/3Ph 3 or so HP unit, and a VFD. Don't think there was much in the power box except a transformer to feed the motor(s) with 380v power from whatever in feed source it was set up for.

    Meh. If a dealer got it, they did OK. If a local fella got it, he done real real good, except for the albatross around his neck if he decides to 'collect the whole set' of FP2 accessories. 'Cause that is gonna make the original purchase price look like the cheapest part of the whole deal!

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    I am obviously completely unsavvy with that site. I went back, logged in, and was able to see a link to 'recently sold', and wow it brought $6269, plus taxes etc.. I would not have been a player. Compared to what I have found elsewhere, and given the machine age and condition, selection of accessories, I consider it way over-priced. Maybe I need to see more current pricing for FP-2s to gauge the market better.

    What do you think that machine would be listed for if on a dealer's site?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hall View Post
    I am obviously completely unsavvy with that site. I went back, logged in, and was able to see a link to 'recently sold', and wow it brought $6269, plus taxes etc.. I would not have been a player. Compared to what I have found elsewhere, and given the machine age and condition, selection of accessories, I consider it way over-priced. Maybe I need to see more current pricing for FP-2s to gauge the market better.

    What do you think that machine would be listed for if on a dealer's site?
    10-15KUSD.

    Would expect if it was posted here on PM, that the price with the dividing head (saw one of those listing at ~2500Euro) somewhere around 8 or 9K.

    Maybe I'm right out to lunch.

    For those not following the somewhat cryptic conversation, a Deckel FP-2, standard table, standard vert head, and a dividing head, along with some tooling. What was it worth? I figure a bit more than it sold for. YMMV. Browse recently sold items: Item details

    Came from a research lab. Not like to have much for time on it. In my opinion.

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    Looks like there's another one up for auction, this one in Ottawa. No tooling, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hall View Post
    Ah, I see. The gage block holder mounted like this:

    And you're sure the other piece is not for an FP2?
    Definately not an FP2 accessory. IMO it's an over arm support for a mill but not the FP2.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    Looks like there's another one up for auction, this one in Ottawa. No tooling, though.
    Weird to me that the one in Vancouver is 600v., while the one in Ottawa is 220v. Normally one would expect just the opposite.

    I'm not going to bit on it. What do you think it will sell for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hall View Post
    Weird to me that the one in Vancouver is 600v., while the one in Ottawa is 220v. Normally one would expect just the opposite.

    I'm not going to bit on it. What do you think it will sell for?
    Why would you think it should be opposite? Or even different?

    You understood it was a sealed bids affair, rather than an auction from the outset, no? A surprising number of my former co-workers had a very hard time wrapping their heads around that, figuring that the minimum bid, was somehow related to the final sales price.
    No telling what it will go for. Might not even get a bid, in which case they will drop the minimum lower and re-list it. But since you don't get to find out what the other bids are, you pretty much make your best guess and live with the results. Only takes one guy that decides he REALLY wants it, to skew the results way off.

    The one in Toronto is closer to a larger sector of both population and potential hobby or Pro-sumer users. Like as not, with less stuff, it'll still sell higher.
    Anyone in any form of Industrial location is pretty much going to have access to 575v power up here. It gets less common as you go down the food chain to shops on rural properties, or basement home shops, and the like. 220v/3ph isn't uncommon. Whatever the buyer orders, is all....

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    Quote Originally Posted by trevj View Post
    Why would you think it should be opposite? Or even different?

    You understood it was a sealed bids affair, rather than an auction from the outset, no? A surprising number of my former co-workers had a very hard time wrapping their heads around that, figuring that the minimum bid, was somehow related to the final sales price.
    No telling what it will go for. Might not even get a bid, in which case they will drop the minimum lower and re-list it. But since you don't get to find out what the other bids are, you pretty much make your best guess and live with the results. Only takes one guy that decides he REALLY wants it, to skew the results way off.

    The one in Toronto is closer to a larger sector of both population and potential hobby or Pro-sumer users. Like as not, with less stuff, it'll still sell higher.
    Anyone in any form of Industrial location is pretty much going to have access to 575v power up here. It gets less common as you go down the food chain to shops on rural properties, or basement home shops, and the like. 220v/3ph isn't uncommon. Whatever the buyer orders, is all....
    I grew up in the lower mainland of BC, and my family lives on Vancouver Island to this day, so after 30-odd years of my life there I am not completely unaware of things north of the border as perhaps could be said of many Americans (not that I'm American - just married to one ).

    From the angle of looking at machinery on the market, I tend to associate 575v machinery with the southern Ontario industrial belt. BC has always been a raw materials depot, not much a manufacturing hub. Sawmills are the main users of industrial power in BC that I am aware of. I have not seen woodworking or milling machines of that 575 voltage coming out of western Canada before - and I have worked in a few shops on Vancouver Island and done my share of equipment shopping there in the distant past. Never saw a 600v. machine out west, but I have seen plenty of them coming out of S. Ontario. One forms opinions based upon what one has seen after all. As you say, if you can have a certain voltage available at your site, you can specify machine power to suit.

    I just did a little reading on the BC Hydro website and see that the basic 3-phase option there is 120/208 or 347/600. That was news to me. Here, the option for 3-phase is 120/208v or 276/480v., and that seems fairly common around much of the US at least.

    As to the auction, I was only made aware of it - and the website - a day before and yes, had no understanding that it was of the sealed bid variety. That makes more sense now. I did read through terms and conditions but there was a lot to wade through and I was paying more attention to details about removing the equipment. I had limited time to try and figure out what rigging and shipping costs would look like, and that was my focus leading up to the end of the auction. So, when the auction ended it appeared to me that there had been no bids, which was a surprise. Now I know what happened - thanks for clearing that up. Not the kind of auction I am too interested in going forward (as it stands, I don't care much for the auction format in general).

    It is of interest to me to see what a 1960s Deckel FP2 mill might sell for in Canada. I've seen the range of prices in Europe, and of course what gets listed on Ebay provides some info too. Prices can be all over the map. No way I would have paid $6300 for that one at the NRC, given additional costs, but someone else obviously thought it was a workable price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hall View Post
    I grew up in the lower mainland of BC, and my family lives on Vancouver Island to this day, so after 30-odd years of my life there I am not completely unaware of things north of the border as perhaps could be said of many Americans (not that I'm American - just married to one ).

    From the angle of looking at machinery on the market, I tend to associate 575v machinery with the southern Ontario industrial belt. BC has always been a raw materials depot, not much a manufacturing hub. Sawmills are the main users of industrial power in BC that I am aware of. I have not seen woodworking or milling machines of that 575 voltage coming out of western Canada before - and I have worked in a few shops on Vancouver Island and done my share of equipment shopping there in the distant past. Never saw a 600v. machine out west, but I have seen plenty of them coming out of S. Ontario. One forms opinions based upon what one has seen after all. As you say, if you can have a certain voltage available at your site, you can specify machine power to suit.

    I just did a little reading on the BC Hydro website and see that the basic 3-phase option there is 120/208 or 347/600. That was news to me. Here, the option for 3-phase is 120/208v or 276/480v., and that seems fairly common around much of the US at least.

    As to the auction, I was only made aware of it - and the website - a day before and yes, had no understanding that it was of the sealed bid variety. That makes more sense now. I did read through terms and conditions but there was a lot to wade through and I was paying more attention to details about removing the equipment. I had limited time to try and figure out what rigging and shipping costs would look like, and that was my focus leading up to the end of the auction. So, when the auction ended it appeared to me that there had been no bids, which was a surprise. Now I know what happened - thanks for clearing that up. Not the kind of auction I am too interested in going forward (as it stands, I don't care much for the auction format in general).

    It is of interest to me to see what a 1960s Deckel FP2 mill might sell for in Canada. I've seen the range of prices in Europe, and of course what gets listed on Ebay provides some info too. Prices can be all over the map. No way I would have paid $6300 for that one at the NRC, given additional costs, but someone else obviously thought it was a workable price.
    Yeah, lots of guys don't want to deal with not being able to see the price and bids, but I have done OK with it. So far bought a Mill, a Lathe, a Car, a welder, and a fair few other smaller items there. <shrug> Ya' makes yer best guess...and get on with your life, when someone else wants it more. Sure no getting all emotional and trying to one-up the other bidder until you are up over the actual retail price, though.

    Yeah, I get what you mean about the West Coast Industrial base. Most of it isn't very Industrial. But there's a bunch that is...And, if anyone is willing to spend money on the high priced power, it'd be a Government Research lab.

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    I suppose that, of the two auction formats, the sealed bid system eliminates the competitive bidding war scenarios that happen with the no-reserve, incremental format (like on IRS auctions, say) where you are notified about being outbid and the auction timer gets reset each time.

    Interesting to me how the West coast item had a starting minimum of $1000, while the Ottawa auction, for much the same item, starts at $6500.00. I wonder how the minimum starting bid price affects bidder psychology?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hall View Post
    I suppose that, of the two auction formats, the sealed bid system eliminates the competitive bidding war scenarios that happen with the no-reserve, incremental format (like on IRS auctions, say) where you are notified about being outbid and the auction timer gets reset each time.

    Interesting to me how the West coast item had a starting minimum of $1000, while the Ottawa auction, for much the same item, starts at $6500.00. I wonder how the minimum starting bid price affects bidder psychology?
    I guess it sorta depends on whether the guy actually wants it and is willing to pay worth, or is trolling through the lists looking to get a bargain, or otherwise looking to flip for profit.
    I usually am looking for a bottom feeder deal. Bid on lots of stuff I'd like to have but may not actually 'need'. Got some pretty good buys. Bought a diesel Miller Welder with a TIG HF box and other goodies, for well under $1k, including gas money to go pick it up. Had 12 honest hours on the hour meter!

    Some days I figure their minimum bids are selected from a jar full of slips of paper on the desk...

    Back in the pre-internet age, I knew a couple guys that used to game the bids systems at a couple different places. One outfit would wait until they had three or five bids, then sell to the highest. So they figured that out and a couple dudes would roll through, inspect the goods and throw in stupid low bids, solely to provide number of bids. The buyer would then roll through and drop a higher, but still low bid. And often enough, get the call....

    Crown assets used to do all their sales on paper that they sent out to the registered bidders. Guys used to go through the lists filling in one dollar or or whatever the minimum bid increment was, bids, on all sorts of junk, most of which had no minimum bid price, just in case folks did not otherwise bid. Met at least one guy that became a millionaire that way, dealing in old office furniture and other junk. His other fave 'target' was old school buses, bought for next to nothing, towed home, and stripped of any resalable stuff, wheels, engines, etc., before either selling the hulk to some farmer for dry storage, or having it hauled for scrap metal.


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