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Deckel Clone Horizontal milling capacity

dazz

Stainless
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Location
New Zealand
Hi
I have a FUS 22 Deckel clone. I am currently searching for an arbor for horizontal milling. The FUS22 will take a 120mm arbor with end support.

What I don't know is the limits of cutter diameter/width that can be driven. I know the specified arbor will carry a max 120mm wide and max 170mm diameter cutter but I don't know the sensible cutter load limits (size/speed/feed) . The manual is not helpful on this topic. I don't want to break my machine.

Not my FUS22 but the same as mine here: FUS22

Dazz
 
That is a very wide open question....lots of variables.
Will change depending on material ,type of cutter, setup....and on.....
If the link is the same as your machine you have just short of 3 Hp on the main drive motor.
From that you must subtract the power needed to drive the feeds (if the feed is driven off the spindle as with the earlier manual Deckels) and also subtract losses from
friction and gearing...
Suspect you have less than 2 Hp to run the cutter at the tool.

Here is a start....calculator to determine horsepower etc for given cutting conditions....Disclaimer: have not personally used this calculator so no vote to its validity....

Milling Horsepower Calculator


See this page to calculate power needed for different materials...

MITSUBISHI MATERIALS CORPORATION Formulae for Cutting Power


The real world answer is that you need to solve this empirically! Start slow and light and work up till the machine complains or the motor stalls.... Its a case of letting the machine tell you what is OK.
Real machine designers would build safety factors into the critical components so that the motor or the feed shear pin will set the ultimate limits given you don't do anything foolish like rapid traverse the part into a spinning cutter or stationary part of the machine.....

Cheers Ross
 
Hi
Both links are helpful. Being able to calculate power estimates will be most useful when making purchasing decisions on cutters.
I haven't looked at the motor yet. It is either not factory original or someone has rewired it for single speed operation.
The FUS22 manual is frugal with useful information and yet contains a lot of information I don't need.
The feeds are set independent of the spindle speed, which is nice. It is not a Deckel, but it is the closest I will get to one.
 
Looks like a solid machine, and max of 5000 rpm is nice to have.

Think you misunderstood the text of the machine in the photos....
Looks to me as the main spindles give 2000 RPM
That 5000 RPM value is with the optional "High Speed Head" having its own electric drive motor coupled to a 4 speed gear box.

Dazz:
I understand that eh feeds are set via their own gear box...Deckel does it that way as well, but the incoming power to that feed gear box is taken off the single main drive motor....
The name plate shown in the posted pictures does not show two motors, so i can only assume that your machine derives the feed power off the main drive motor just as early Deckesl do....
That is important as you must figure on the draw of power from the main motor to run the feeds when computing the actual horsepower that is available to turn the spindle/cutter....

The proof is if the feeds can be run with the main motor powered off.

Cheers Ross
 
Hi
I have never seen a Deckel in person so I don't know the details.
My FUS22 takes most flavours of 40 taper tooling. The mill came with multiple draw bars.
I have the 5000rpm hi-speed head, the standard head and the slotting head.

I just finished making a new slotting tool today for a key way in a pulley I need to cut for a band saw I am refurbishing. Making tools to make parts to make tools work.

IMG_9645.jpg
The tool bit is angled to give a top rake of 10 degrees. I only have to grind the front face and add side clearance.

IMG_9648.jpg
If needed, I can fit custom ground bits as required.


I also have two tables plus some tooling.
 
Hi
Completed my key way today. I learnt a few things.
I figured out I need to manually cycle the ram once before powering on after each adjustment to avoid a crash. The internal mechanism of the slotting head is relatively fragile and it looks like a crash would wreck parts of the slotter head rather than the machine.

Manually cycling the machine can be done from the back of the horizontal spindle, but it is a pain because I can't see the tool. I think I need to make a special spanner for the spindle rear. Not too difficult.

Having a DRO makes the job so much easier. It makes it much easier to calculate the positions and execute the cutting plan. The tool was specifically designed to be a tight fit within the pulley bore. I only had just enough room to cut the key way. Getting the numbers right was important.

I need some sort of stand or support for the heads. They are too heavy to man-handle, align and fasten to the machine.

IMG_9662.jpg
I machined a groove in the pulley to provide for clamping. The pulley was supported on top of an old bearing race.
IMG_9664.jpg

Dazz
 
Completed my key way today. I learnt a few things.

I've done quite a bit of slotting on my machine. I tend to put the cutter rotated 90 degrees from how you have done it, and then to feed the X axis. This also lets me clamp work directly to the table. I arrange it so that the cutter comes into the T-nut slot in the table. I adjust the total throw (hub) and Z-axis so that the cutter comes at least 1 cm above the work, and clears it below by a few mm. After checking that the cutter is clear, I turn on the machine (operating at a slow speed like 60 or 80 rpm). Then I advance the cutter by hand. There is no need to do manual cycles, I just watch the cutter, and each time it comes out of the work moving upwards I turn the X feed handle a few hundredths of a mm, and listen to the cut. This is one of those jobs where setup is 95% of the time and the actual cutting is the remaining 5%.

Cheers,
Bruce
 
Hi

I am sure there are many right ways of doing this.

When I made the tool I took a lot of care to get the square hole centred on the bar. For me it was easier to machine the flat for the clamping screws on the same side as the cutting edge.

I machined a groove in the pulley for clamping. This was cut off after slotting.

Knowing that the cutting bit is centred means that I can measure from the outside edge of the pulley to the tool diameter to centre the tool in the bore. Makes setting up faster.


Dazz
When making the cuts, I focused on the DRO display and sound. I didn't watch the tool cutting.
 
On the topic of cutting power I thought I'd post this figure of my FP2. This is a 38mm (1.5") diameter bit drilling into GGG40 (not sure if this is ductile cast iron or semi-steel) predrilled to 20mm diameter. The part is 165mm (6") long. The chips are 0.2mm thick (0.008") and 11mm wide (0.5").

attachment.php


From here on I'll work in the horizontal spindle with a boring bar. I need to bore this out full depth to 60mm diameter (2.5").
 








 
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