Deckel FP electrical connection help
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Country
    SWEDEN
    Posts
    25
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default Deckel FP electrical connection help

    Hi. Im trying to plug in a used deckel fp3, but my circuit breaker keeps breaking as soon is try to turn the switch on the cabinet. What is wrong? The three phases are connected to the R S T slots and the earth to a earth slot. But there is also a blue cable coming out of the earth.... see picture.
    Am i too use neutral aswell or only 3 phases and ground?

    Thanks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails deckel-el.jpg  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    371
    Likes (Received)
    1969

    Default

    Yes You need to connect the nutral (bleu) too but that can not be the cause of your problem
    Is it a residual current device that trips??? i
    If there is conductivity between neutral and earth this will inmediatly trip
    So check that

    Peter

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    235
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    232
    Likes (Received)
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    If there is conductivity between neutral and earth this will inmediatly trip
    On the photo it looks like the ground terminal has been bridged over to the neutral - you'll presumably want to remove that link when you hook up the neutral.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    371
    Likes (Received)
    1969

    Default

    That is the obvious But check conductivity once more as sometimes when powering auxillary equipment like a lamp or so they used the ground and a phase
    Sometimes its a srtuggle to find the culpritt

    Peter

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Country
    SWEDEN
    Posts
    25
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    That is the obvious But check conductivity once more as sometimes when powering auxillary equipment like a lamp or so they used the ground and a phase
    Sometimes its a srtuggle to find the culpritt

    Peter
    So that bridge is not suppose to be there correct? That's the neutral slot.

    How do I check conductivity?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    371
    Likes (Received)
    1969

    Default

    It is not supposed to be there if you have a RCD in place
    You measure conductivity with a ohmmeter
    Or if you do not have one with a battery with a light bulb

    Peter

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Country
    SWEDEN
    Posts
    25
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    It is not supposed to be there if you have a RCD in place
    You measure conductivity with a ohmmeter
    Or if you do not have one with a battery with a light bulb

    Peter
    Alright thanks peter. I do have a RCD. I've now removed it. Am i to connect Neutral there then since the cable left in place is blue? That leaves me no proper slot for earth. See picture . deckel-el2.jpg

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Country
    SWEDEN
    Posts
    25
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    I have it running now. Neutral connected to blue, earth doubled in on the other earth.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    371
    Likes (Received)
    1969

    Default

    The 3 terminals to the right of the neutral terminal with all those earth wires in them are all connected to eachother in the middle of the terminals
    The first one of the tree has a free slot at the bottem That is where your earth is supposed to be connected

    Peter

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    235
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    232
    Likes (Received)
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swehollow View Post
    Alright thanks peter. I do have a RCD. I've now removed it. Am i to connect Neutral there then since the cable left in place is blue? That leaves me no proper slot for earth. See picture . deckel-el2.jpg
    Looks like you've fixed it already, but just to stress that the earth connection is critical for the safety of the operator. This bonds all the exposed (and internal) metalwork of the machine to safety earth. If this is not hooked up, and a fault develops, the machine can go live/hot, and an unlucky operator could then get electrocuted.
    So never leave the ground unconnected.

    If the ground is properly hooked up, and a fault develops, one of two things will happen:
    1. The RCD will trip, cutting the power to the machine and whatever else runs through it.
    2. If there's no RCD and the fault is big enough, the breaker will trip.

    Under neither circumstance will exposed metalwork on the machine be live.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    371
    Likes (Received)
    1969

    Default

    A 30ma RCD will tripp if you touch a hot wire even if eart is not connected

    Peter

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    235
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    232
    Likes (Received)
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    A 30ma RCD will tripp if you touch a hot wire even if eart is not connected
    That's true, but surely you're not advocating to leave the ground floating?

    With the ground connected, the RCD will trip first on any fault and the operator will spared that 30mA buzz. Under just the wrong circumstances, a 30mA buzz can be directly lethal, and it can always cause a secondary hazard - like falling off stairs, or jerking into a spinning lathe/mill or the like.

    Also, the general rule with life-and-limb safety is that you want multiple safeties. With an RCD, a breaker and a ground connection, you effectively have two operator safeties.
    With no ground, you'd better hope that RCD is good because it's the only safety the operator has. Incidentally that's what the little button on the front of it is for, testing it against e.g. an open sense coil, or a welded contact or the like.
    The breaker is not there to protect the operator, it's to protect the wiring against becoming a fire hazard on overload.

    Here in North America the ground is commonly the only operator safety, as you don't typically have RCD protection on anything but household bathroom or outdoor outlets (but I digress). This is true at least with residential wiring, I don't know how it works in an industrial setting.

  13. Likes thanvg liked this post
  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    371
    Likes (Received)
    1969

    Default

    I agree with you regarding needing a earth
    Over here on new installations a 30ma RCD is mandatory a couple of decennia already

    Peter

  15. #14
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    235
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    232
    Likes (Received)
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    Over here on new installations a 30ma RCD is mandatory a couple of decennia already
    Yeah, I'm a licensed electrician from a European country, but living in Canada. I really don't understand the archaic distribution system and code here in North America.

    My wife has a pretty binary definition for civilization: if you live within range of home delivery pizza, you're in civilization; otherwise you're not.
    Myself, I'd say civilization is where you get 400/230 three phase to your residence as a matter of course, and obviously protected by an RCD .

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    287
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    168
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    My own FP1 has had the neutral and ground joined when purchased.. used to work fine on my RPC until the household electrics were updated (then it would sometimes trip)..

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Country
    GREECE
    Posts
    733
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    266
    Likes (Received)
    199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    ....
    Myself, i'd say civilization is where you get 400/230 three phase to your residence as a matter of course, and obviously protected by an rcd .


    (I guess it does simplify things, if you want to turn your house into a semi-industrial workshop )

  18. Likes sigurasg, ballen liked this post
  19. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    371
    Likes (Received)
    1969

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thanvg View Post

    (I guess it does simplify things, if you want to turn your house into a semi-industrial workshop )

    Since a long time already we have 3 phases to residences But that is in general limitid to 3x25amps mainfuse
    All subfuses are 16Amps max
    The advantage is that you have nowhere huge amps flowing which are a fire hazard Also the mainfusebox is smaller Typicly 425x230mm That houses a RPC Mainswitch and about 10 fuses
    Also if one mainfuse blows you are not completly in the dark eighter
    Peter

  20. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Country
    GREECE
    Posts
    733
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    266
    Likes (Received)
    199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    Since a long time already we have 3 phases to residences But that is in general limitid to 3x25amps mainfuse
    All subfuses are 16Amps max
    The advantage is that you have nowhere huge amps flowing which are a fire hazard Also the mainfusebox is smaller Typicly 425x230mm That houses a RPC Mainswitch and about 10 fuses
    Also if one mainfuse blows you are not completly in the dark eighter
    Peter
    yeap, I know.... I live in Europe as well

  21. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Benicia California USA
    Posts
    8,772
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2308
    Likes (Received)
    3174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    Yeah, I'm a licensed electrician from a European country, but living in Canada. I really don't understand the archaic distribution system and code here in North America.

    .
    Didn't keep me from getting a hot cup of coffee or turning on this computer this morning....There are 340 million of us here (US) that seem to do just fine with this "Archaic" setup.
    Didn't seem to keep us back from putting a man on the moon......Personally think 50 hz is pretty "Archaic"....
    Cheers Ross

  22. Likes sigurasg, thanvg liked this post
  23. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    371
    Likes (Received)
    1969

    Default

    Ross
    Which is more "Archaic" 50Hz single phase 230volts and 3ph 400volts
    Or 60 Hz Single phase 120V 2phase 220 volts 3ph 120/208 V or 277/480 V or 120/240 V or 240 V / 480 V and those that I forgot


    Peter

  24. Likes AlfaGTA, ballen liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •