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Deckel FP1 manual

Deckel fp1

Hi Pete
the one i have has got a collet spindle the collets measure 122mm long, has a main diameter of 27.9mm with a
20mm diameter shank & butress thread. and is from the 1950s i think. i have some issues with the vertical head it works but is noisy.the table has a auto power feed from a lever to the rear right of the table
Any help would be great
 
Brian
There is a gentleman with the user name wrench who has compiled a DVD with just about all the know documentation about Deckel FP1's and other FP's .

Look up wrench with a search (above) and then if you left click on his name in any of his threads, you can see a place to send him a PM (Private message)

And if you have not already done so, look up your machine in the archive section of

WWW.lathes.co.uk

Rgds
Davycrocket
 
Hi Pete
the one i have has got a collet spindle


No it does not

There is a adaptor in the spindle eighter MT4 to S20x2 or Iso 40 to S20x2 which can be removed
(s20x2 is the thread on the collets )
I have never seen a Deckel with a collet spindle
Do you change speed and feeds with levers or a round dial ?

Peter from Holland
 
Brian
The Top picture below shows the adapter that Peter refers to .
It is for the Morse Taper 4 version of spindle.
The part that you can see on the left is the screw on ring used to withdraw the adapter from the Morse Taper. Look at the protruding end of your spindle. Can you see a Thread ?
If so there is an adapter in there to take the 20mm diam body collets. and you need a withdrawal ring And the captive draw bar and the thread you describe as "buttress" is what peter accurately describes as S20 x 2mm. If your spindle does not expose a thread, but has instead a short taper with two flats ,then it will be an adapter in an Iso 40 spindle. See lower picture.
If your spindle turns out to be Morse 4 and you need a milling collet chuck to suit then send me a PM.
You would expect both horizontal and vertical spindles to take the same tooling. !!
Rgds

Davycrocket ( Just down the road In Warrington !! )
 

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  • Iso 40  Deckel collet adapter.jpg
    Iso 40 Deckel collet adapter.jpg
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Hi David

The spindle does have a thread on the end so from what you say it should eject with a nut tightened on to it then i will be able to use m4 tooling that would be great however i do have a large selection of collets about 30 in all. may machine has a captive draw bar in the horizontal and vertical if i remove the vertical one will it drop through the head?

Thank for the advice so far

Brain
 
If so there is an adapter in there to take the 20mm diam body collets. and you need a withdrawal ring And the captive draw bar and the thread you describe as "buttress" is what peter accurately describes as S20 x 2mm.
The curiosity is that he says his collets are aprox 28mm body :skep: Regardless, must have some sort of adapter in there and these often get stuck with age.
 
Stuck adapter

Hi all i will try and get he addapter out and see what happens, how does the m4 tooling get secured after that? is it just taper related or does it have a threaded end in the tooling?:confused:
 
Hi Brian
Yes the Morse 4 Tooling (for a Deckel) will have the same S20 x 2mm thread for the same draw bar.
You could use other Morse 4 with an adapted drawbar .
And you can get an adapter S20 x 2mm to 12mm from a guy in Germany .
Go to Ebay germany and search on S20 x 2mm

Hi Milacron
I think Brian was sugesting that the "Main"( Major) diam of the collet was 27.9mm
He then says that the Shank is 20mm, which makes it a convenional Deckel collet.

Rgds
Davycrocket
 
may machine has a captive draw bar in the horizontal and vertical if i remove the vertical one will it drop through the head?

Brain

All manual Deckels with the exception of the FP4MK have captive draw bars.
The early ones are retained by a threaded collar held in place via taper pin.
Removal of the pin and unscrewing the collar will allow the drawbar be it horizontal or vertical to be remove through the front of the spindles.
However if you have an MK4-20mm collet adapter or NMTB 40-20mm fitted, the drawbar will not be able to come out until that adapter is first removed.
Cheers Ross
 
stuck adapter

Hi all

I am in the process of getting a nut manufactured for the adapter to see if i can get it out, but then that leaves me with the problem of larger tooling. Where do you buy this stuff? also the head is operational but noisy and i thibk the oil levels require topping up if so how and how much and of what type. I am a maintenance tradesman so stripping it down is no problem but i would like a manual before i start just incase ther are any nasties inside IE bearings going to fall out etc.
The advice is well recieved thank you all.:)
 
Tooling is/should be considerably easier to find in GB/Europe, check eBay, Singer and then there are some collet/tooling suppliers, Nann is one that I found, collets are pricey though, seem to recall close to $100 each, maybe more now.

http://www.nann.de/upload/cms_links/00000154_l_nan007_e-3-5.pdf

You are looking for article number 540E. I'm sure there are others carrying them now. I also years ago, found a smoking deal on Morse taper #4 endmill holders, shell mill holders and bought them, cut the tangs off, threaded the end, used a set screw and a section of 20mm threaded rod to add the draw section and made my own tool holders. Probably not the most elegant, but I only had $6-$12 per holder invested and a few hours time to modify them all....

Deckel_adapter_3.jpg


Deckel_adapter_5.jpg


Deckel_tools_2.jpg
 
Hi Brian

I tried a similar fix for my tooling ie making an M20 buttress adaptor .
How do you prevent yours unscrewing and being left stuck out of sight up in the drawbar?
 
Ahhhhhhhh, Loctite.
If the threads are made to fit well, a bit of the "blue" will keep them in place until you need to remove. For the blue about 250+ degrees of local heat and it comes right apart.

Cheers Ross
 
As Ross says, a little dab will do you! Loctite is a wondrous thing... LOL! I had gotten a section of threaded rod from Gizmo:

http://www.gizmowizard.com/deckeldapter/deckeldapter_main.htm

Cut it into sections, chopped off the end of the tang, or threaded hole, depending on which type of MT4 holder I had, drill and tap 1/2"-13, use a grade 8 set screw and loctite and you are set. I even modified an R8 shanked Royal SnapChange unit to fit directly into the MT spindle and use that quite a bit for my smaller tools, center drill, drill, c'sk and tap operations... stuff like that. It's quite a bit quicker than taking the whole tool holder out every time.
 








 
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