Deckel FP1 spindle heat. How warm is too warm?

I've had this Deckel FP1 for a few years now but never ran the horizontal spindle until recently. (ran it with a converted Bridgeport head and had buck transformer issues that were finally resolved.) Anyway, I'm running a production job with a small cutter in the horizontal spindle running at top speed of 1200 rpm and noticed the front spindle bearing getting progressively warmer after an hour or so of intermittent running. I've searched past posts on oiling the machine and understand the use Kluber grease in the spindle. Serial number 30816 which I think puts it in the era of bearing spindle. Is it unusual for the spindle to run warm when running high speed? How difficult is it to grease the bearings? What are the "special tools" required to gain access to the bearings to apply grease? Could this be an adjustment issue with the grease inside still being good. Thanks for any advice.

Todd

I would not worry unless the heat is excessive. It is normal for grease packed spindles to produce some heat. If it is not over 30 or 40 degrees f above room temp and seems to be stable then no worries.

If it does keep climbing more and more it could be a bearing or preload issue.

Or grease cutting....

Important to know whether your machine is fitted with bronze spindle bushing or needle rollers.

In general there is no preload. Rollers (if so fitted) are straight and require some clearance to run....
Some spindle (not all) setups use a tapered ID of the inner race and a corresponding taper ground on the OD of the spindle...having a
jam nut to force the bearing on to the taper. Some size change can be accomplished by tightening the nut further and expanding the inner race some...(very small change possible)

End float is set via adjusting ring to set the clearance to the thrust bearing (ball race type)
Thrust bearing needs clearance like the rollers...no preload! Should see some end movement in the spindle with everything at room temp....somewhere about .0002" end float.

Spindles can run warm, On a spindle running at only 1200 RPM i would not expect too much temp rise on a needle fitted unit. For my money on a machine with greased spindle bearings (needle rollers) i would as a rule disassemble clean and lube any Deckel that i acquire just as a normal part of bringing the machine into service.

Do a search there have been a number of posts on this board about servicing a spindle...You need the correct grease, good indicator that can read tenths, some special tools (shop built usually) and a spotlessly clean work area with good light.
Care must be taken to clean everything well and keep it so...not use too much grease in the re-fitting andf use care when adjusting the end float. Also you will need to follow a proper "run in" for the spindle after the rebuild....

The spindles will run for a long time without any service...but you have no idea of where it has been and how it has been used.
On the needle roller spindles if damage occurs to either the spindle or quill its a big deal.

FYI the factory guide lines for the CNC FP-NC's state that a max of 160*F temp on a spindle running at max RPM (3150) is OK.....

Cheers Ross

AlfaGTA said:

Important to know whether your machine is fitted with bronze spindle bushing or needle rollers.

Click to expand...

I thought given the age determined by the serial number of my machine that it would be a needle bearing machine...perhaps not a good assumption. Here's a picture of under the cover



Can anyone tell what I might have? I'm prepared to buy the kluber grease and disassemble and re-lube if necessary but won't if I have bronze bushings.

Todd

Not schooled enough on all the FP1 versions to give you a definitive answer, but i think the traces of reddish brown goo around the spindle suggest
someone has been there after the factory, and it does not look like they used "Kluber".

Cheers Ross

I have #37610 which is supplied with a needle bearing vertical spindle and a plain horizontal.

I had a bit too much heat on the the horizontal spindle when I first got the mill.
As it turned out the felts which filter the oil at the bronze bearing were completely clogged which was causing lube starvation I suppose.
I cleaned everything up and have had no problems since.

The quick way to decide which bearings are in the horizontal spindle would be to see if there is an oil sight glass on the front of the spindle carrier. If one is present it has the oil supplied internally plain spindle bearings, if not then probably has greased roller bearings.
Dan

Looks awfully low on oil in the photo. Have your wicks dried out?

Danny VanVoorn said:

The quick way to decide which bearings are in the horizontal spindle would be to see if there is an oil sight glass on the front of the spindle carrier. If one is present it has the oil supplied internally plain spindle bearings, if not then probably has greased roller bearings.
Dan

Click to expand...

Ok, I do have the front sight glass on mine but thought that was to monitor the well of oil for the gears and Y slides.

Trboatworks said:

I have #37610 which is supplied with a needle bearing vertical spindle and a plain horizontal.

I had a bit too much heat on the the horizontal spindle when I first got the mill.
As it turned out the felts which filter the oil at the bronze bearing were completely clogged which was causing lube starvation I suppose.
I cleaned everything up and have had no problems since.

Click to expand...

If I do have a bronze bearing, I can not find the felts for it. I fished around in the two side passages with a probe to see if I could sense something soft in there. I can see the two wicks in the side troughs but thought they are for the Y slide.

Todd

bcstractor said:

Looks awfully low on oil in the photo. Have your wicks dried out?

Click to expand...

The troughs on each side have oil in them and the wicks are being fed. I have added more oil (Mobil DTE 68 ISO) to the center reservoir to see if that will help. Do the wicks also feed the bearing?

Todd

Oil in the "Y" slide is a fuinction of it being carried up with action of the drive gearing to the spindle...Excess returns to the spindle gear case.
There is a sight glass for that gear case...Oil level should be mid glass when the machine is standing idle.

The wicks visible in your photo are indeed fro supplying lube to the "Y" ways....
Think the felt feeding the spindle is fitted into a window in the bronze bush...do not believe you can detect its presence from probing outside the bushing.
Must remove the spindle to gain access to oil feed felts. (front and rear bushings).

Cheers Ross

Deckel FP1 Mk. 2 horizontal spindle with plain bushings and felt pads

Just for the record. Could not find any pics of the above discussed situation, so here are some:

Front bronze bushing with oil feed felt pad





Rear bronze bushing with oil feed felt pad





Stefan