Deckel Fp1 . X-axis 1.5mm play
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  1. #1
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    Default Deckel Fp1 . X-axis 1.5mm play

    Hello

    I bought a Fp1 yesterday

    Serial number 22495 . Anyone knows what year it was made ?

    And today noticed I can push the table with leadscrew side to side 1.5mm

    Can screw and nut be this worn or do do you think something is loose ?

    The part I pointing at also mowes back and forward .

    Also the X-dial dosent turns when attaching the locking nut . It just get stucked .
    Im sure someone has had this appart .

    I dont have any manual or drawings on the mashine yet .

    The pictures is turned wrong nomather wath I do ?? Sorry

    Thanks Johan from Sweden
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails deckel-bearing.jpg   deckel.jpg  

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    Hi Johan,

    Welcome to the Deckel club! In the area that you are pointing to, there should be a bronze lead-screw nut, which is cylindrical in shape. That is held in place by a ring-shaped nut. Here is a photo of that area of my FP2 (which is very similar in this):



    You can see the end of the bronze nut, surrounded by the steel ring nut (with 4 holes for a pin-wrench). On your machine, is the ring nut missing? Or is it loose? If the ring nut is present and tightened, then either the bronze nut or the lead screw (or both!) must be quite worn. But I think that's unlikely, even in old Deckel mills the wear is rarely more than 1/2 mm.

    Replacement bronze nuts are available from Franz Singer in Germany. I'm not sure what year your machine is. If it's 1950 to 1962, then this would be the right one: #X-Achse Spindelmutter 2100-213 50 FP1 Bj.1950-62 gebr. fur Deckel Frasmaschine | eBay

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    Thank you ballen .

    There is no steelring nut with 4 holes than could be tightened.

    And the the part im pointing at is turning with the leadscrew like a bearing

    Is the leadscrew nut inside of that part maybe?

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    Are there threads for a steel ring nut?

    Please see the photos in the post I link below, that show an FP1. Note that the entire thread should be of interest to you. I do not know if this machine is the same generation as yours, so it is possible that the design has changed. I am sure that someone here who has an FP1 which is similar to yours will comment. In any case, I suggest that you try to remove the lead screw nut to inspect it. Advice: go calmly and don't use excessive force.

    FP1 Notes on cleaning and disassembly

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    On the FP1, the nut and its retaining ring are on the other side of the saddle.

    Check that first, then check the adjustement of the leadscrew thrust bearing, located at the end plate of the vertical carriage (handwheel side).

    If everything is properly tightened/adjusted, chances are that your nut is shot.

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    Here is a pic from the other operator side .

    It look like this could the leadscrew nut .

    When pushing the table back and forward the leadscrew mowes in and out in this part


    No locking nut , no thread for it either .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails deckel-leadscrew-nut.jpg  

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    Here is the adjustment nuts for the leadscrew .

    They looks to have been tightend many times and I cant mowe them .

    If the leadscrew moves in the the nut like om my machine,I guess tightend those nuts dosent mather?

    I dont know if its possible to tighten them more either
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails adjustment-nuts.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan.A View Post
    If the leadscrew moves in the the nut like om my machine,I guess tightend those nuts dosent mather?
    Exactly

    This picture of the FP1 x-axis nut and leadscrew assembly should give you a good idea of what to look for on your machine :



    And here's the thread from wich that pic was taken. On that very forum.

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    Thank you .

    Its strange that I dont have any locking nut outside the x-axis nut

    It is enough space for one , but its no thread for it either .

    I have figured out that my machine is from 43 . Diffrent konstruktion ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan.A View Post
    I have figured out that my machine is from 1943. Different construction?
    Here is what the X-axis nut looks like for FP1 mills built before 1950. I wonder if the hole in the side is for a retaining or locking screw?

    X-Achse Spindelmutter 2100-213 80 FP1 bis Bj.1950 fur Deckel Frasmaschine | eBay

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    Here is the part of the manual with instructions of how to disassemble the spindle

    How is your German

    BTW
    Here is a link to that french forum with lotts of manuals
    Deckel FP1
    Click on "Deckel FP1 Manual1941"
    Plenty more manuals

    Peter

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    Here's a translation of the instructions provided by Peter in the previous post. See step 9. It looks as if the lead screw nut is retained by a locking screw. Perhaps that has come loose? From the instructions it appears that you can only access that by removing the vertical table.

    1 - unscrew wiper
    2 - remove handwheel
    3 - remove left stop
    4 - remove left handlever
    5 - remove left lead-screw bearing
    6 - loosen locking nut at the right lead-screw bearing
    7 - screw out the lead screw
    8 - slide off vertical table to the right
    9 - unscrew locking screw for the lead-screw nut
    10 - pull out nut with the help of a tube

    Here's a useful hint: put a small bench on the operator side of the machine, and adjust Z on the machine until the bottom of the vertical table is at the top of the bench. Then you can simply slide the vertical table onto the bench. No danger of hurting your back or dropping the vertical table on your foot.

    PS: just realized you are in Sweden, can probably read German no problem

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    Thank you guys for your cinde help, I really appreciate it .

    I will take the table appart when I get time and try to fix the problem.


    Ballen your translation to english will be useful. I cant read german without google translate


    Johan

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    I disassembled the table . No problem .


    10 - pull out nut with the help of a tube

    Cant understand how to pull with a tube ?

    I think i have to make a puller to get the nut out
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails isaer.jpg   nut.jpg  

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    ´´Ringes´´ does not translate to tube I think
    I would knock it out from the opposite site with a piece of soft material
    Wood or plastic
    You can pull it out with a piece of althread, some big washers with small hole and a piece of tube with a bigger hole as the OD of the nut

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan.A View Post
    10 - pull out nut with the help of a tube
    What does the locking screw look like? Given that it's down in that hole in the "saddle", I guess it has to be a caphead?

    I think pulling the nut out with a tube means you use the leadscrew as a puller to pull out the nut. You do this by threading the screw back into the nut through a tube that bears against the bearing support and the side of the saddle.

    See this picture:

    Note that there's a piece of "pipe" against the side of the saddle, and the leadscrew goes through it and the table.

    This is a simple, gentle way to coax the nut straight out of the bore, as the leadscrew will pull on the threads of the nut. Tapping it out with something that goes through the bore from the other side carries a risk of beating against the wrong thing, or mangling the threads on the far side of the nut.

    The instructions for how to extract the lead nut from the FP2 table also uses the lead screw to push it out.

    fp1-lead-nut-pulling.jpg
    Last edited by sigurasg; 10-28-2020 at 07:28 PM. Reason: Full-size image inline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan.A View Post
    10 - pull out nut with the help of a tube.
    Looking at the picture, I think the idea is that you put a short hollow tube over the end of the support, then you thread the lead screw inside the tube and into the lead screw nut. Then, by tightening the lead screw, you pull the nut out of the support. So the tube needs an ID which is larger than the OD of the nut, and longer than the length of the nut.

    I just saw, Siggi has posted a similar explanation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    ´´Ringes´´ does not translate to tube I think.
    I was looking at the picture as well as at the text. Perhaps I should have said "pipe" or "hollow cylinder" not "tube".

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    Thanks again

    I managed to get the nut out . Looks homemade to me

    Or at least someone have done some vork on it before .

    The play is between the nut and screw .

    I think I try to order a new nut to start with
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails nut-out.jpg   tube.jpg   thread.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan.A View Post
    I think I try to order a new nut to start with
    There is another good solution if you don't want to spend the money on a new nut. "Mold" a new nut around your lead screw using SKC-60:
    Slideway Coatings – SKC Gleittechnik
    Basically you remove the play between your existing nut and the lead screw by injecting low-friction epoxy into the nut, using the lead screw to provide the shape.

    If you order a new nut from Franz Singer, I suggest you order it directly and not via Ebay. Email him a photo of the current nut and the serial number plate of the machine. This will ensure that you get the correct nut and not the wrong one.

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