Deckel FP2 1966 #5147
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  1. #1
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    Default Deckel FP2 1966 #5147

    Hello

    A couple of months ago I bought a Deckel FP2 from another member - Jersey John.

    Iíve done a lot of lurking here learning a load about the machines, but thought I would post some info to entice you in and hopefully get some answers to questions that are rattling round my head.

    The mill was in beautiful condition, really clean and tidy and well looked after. The seller was extremely helpful, so thank you John.

    As John pointed out, itís 50 years old (more on that to come) but Iím already in love with it.

    Some pics of the transport crew:







    A pic of me looking very excited:



    I will post some details here as I service the machine. My primary hobby is rebuilding vintage Harley Davidsons motors, and Iíve got a 7 month old boy, so progress will be slow, but itíll be here for your viewing pleasure and critique.

    Thanks

    M


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Hmmm pictures in wrong order and different sizes...

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    Where in the UK are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldCar View Post
    Where in the UK are you?
    London. But I largely work on American bikes, so was glad to find a machine in INCHES!

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    First thing I did was wire it up wrong and run it backwards for a bit. Díoh.

    Second thing I did was cut some aluminium! Never used a horizontal spindle before, but this was very smooth and satisfying.


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    Spindle rebuild. Now weíre getting to the good stuff.

    I put an indicator on the female taper of the vertical spindle and measured the run out at 0.0005Ē (0.01mm). More than I was hoping for to be honest.

    Fortunately the horizontal measured <0.0001Ē (0.002mm) which I was very happy with.

    Decided to tear down the vertical spindle to see if the bearings are ok. Some amazing threads on PM on how to do this, but Iíll repeat photos here for fun.

    Got it out.


    Gross grease everywhere.



    Quill feed spindle twisted after years of hammering:


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    The other posts I read mentioned that the thrust washers in a FP2 spindle have a flat race and a concave race, which prevents radial forces on the spindle. But mine only had standard concave races throughout. Maybe just an earlier design?




    Everything cleaning up nicely:



    The spacer between the thrust washers was badly scored. I decided to grind it flat, taking 0.0015Ē off. This would help the thrust bearing sit where it wants to, without really effecting the spindle location too badly:


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    Default Deckel FP2 1966 #5147

    Measuring time.

    I wanted to measure the needle bearingsí radial play directly over the bearings themselves. So instead of putting the spindle back in the head and measuring the tip, I held it in our bench centres (used for flywheel truing) with a small tool holder in place.

    Measured it in all different orientations and the results were really good: all measurements were between 0.0003-0.0005Ē, which is perfectly in spec (despite a little ovality).



    So thatís very good news.

    Greased it all up sparingly with some Franz Singer grease and reassembled.



    Set the end play by holding the spindle on the surface plate and lifting the quill up and down. Quite hard to measure once greased.



    Thatís enough for one day.

    Beer time.

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    Hi Milo

    Welcome to the forum with my Deckel - Glad you're finding your way around the machine, enjoy it

    John

    PS: My replacement is a real dog right now

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    That's a nice machine. I suggest that you replace the Y handwheel with one similar to the X and Z handwheels (with a spinner handle). Otherwise it's very slow to crank Y over. If you post the diameter here, someone might have a spare. (On my FP2 I also replaced the horizontal quill handwheel with one that has a spinner handle, for the same reason.)

    My other suggestion: add a DRO. You'll be able to work at least twice as fast.

    Not surprising that the horizontal spindle is in good shape compared to the vertical. Many people are not used to having this and don't take advantage of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    That's a nice machine. I suggest that you replace the Y handwheel with one similar to the X and Z handwheels (with a spinner handle). Otherwise it's very slow to crank Y over. If you post the diameter here, someone might have a spare. (On my FP2 I also replaced the horizontal quill handwheel with one that has a spinner handle, for the same reason.)

    My other suggestion: add a DRO. You'll be able to work at least twice as fast.

    Not surprising that the horizontal spindle is in good shape compared to the vertical. Many people are not used to having this and don't take advantage of it.
    Thanks for the tips


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by milohiscox View Post
    Thanks for the tips
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hi Milo - Just sent you a PM about Ballen's comments

    John

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    Going deeper underground... Next instalment: The Head.

    I went to put the spindle back in the head and noticed some pretty bad scoring on the inside:



    Also, interestingly, the very bottom of the bore seems to taper outwards, looks like it might have been opened up. Is that correct? I would have thought they would have designed the quill to have as much support as possible, but then this is also a removable piece.

    Ah the smell of old grease:



    Out comes the gear:



    Only seem to be able to post 9 pics per post so will split it out...

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    Cleaning up nicely:



    Uh-oh found something bad... One of the bevel gear thrust bearing races had fractured. Lucky really, could have got nasty in there:



    Next question: Can I replace it with a standard FAG 51109 thrust bearing (£20)?
    This broken race has C.B on it - does anyone know what that means? I canít find any information on it:


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    My last request for tonight. Does anyone have a scan of the manual for the long reach head?

    I have a manual (thanks John) but covers all the other attachments except the long reach, which in itself is confusing.

    For example,
    This nipple on the spindle cap has had 60 years of grease through it, but is it actually for oil?



    And this one, oil or grease?



    I donít really understand the function of this block at the back, maybe if I take the whole attachment off it will become clear:


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    Quote Originally Posted by milohiscox View Post
    My last request for tonight. Does anyone have a scan of the manual for the long reach head?

    I have a manual (thanks John) but covers all the other attachments except the long reach, which in itself is confusing.
    Hi Milo - just sent you an email with the required .PDF

    John

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    Block at the back is for two purposes. First, safety. Keeps you from pulling the long reach head off in the forward direction and dumping it in your lap. Second, needed to lock the long reach head in place. Look closely at how the clamping mechanism works for the long reach head. It's a poor design, these front and back black clamps are needed to make it work properly.

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    Couldnít find out what C.B meant for the thrust bearing so replaced it with a normal FAG thrust bearing which seems to be fine.

    Turns out someone had attempted a repair before and had ground out whatever fastener holds the key into the bevel gear. You can see a little track on the race where their dremel got away from them. The thrust bearing was the wrong way round and the tight bit was against the housing so scored a groove in the gear.

    Anyway I re-machined it all nice using a stone to grind a countersink in the hardened gear.



    Also remachined the vibration brake:



    All back together:




    I only took the gear apart because all the old grease looked gross but Iím really glad I did because I found a cracked race, loose key and wrong assembly order!

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