Deckel FP2 acquired (Preliminary) - Page 18
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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by jz79 View Post
    so you turned down a guy associated with a company that doesn't deal with private individuals because the kit was too big? the company went out of it's way to help you solve your issue and yet it still wasn't good enough, not hard to understand why companies tend not want serve non businesses, is it?

    and it is not like a 350g kit is a large one...
    /rant
    I haven't turned down anyone yet aside from Belzona and their 1kg kit...

    I wrote that the seller would get back to me... He never gave any price for the 350g kit either so I don't even know what it is I have supposedly turned down... I said first thing that I was looking for a 100g kit (which is what I have read about on PM) and he would look that up and get back to me... He would send a quote for either the 100 or the 350g kit.

    I am surprised though that you think a phone call should warrant such loyalty from a company, them obviously sending an email to a local dealer that there is a potential customer is going above and beyond now...

    Still, I don't see why I should value it over the text based responses I got from say Devcon which where quite helpful and prompt as well. I got my questions answered by them first of all, last week in fact, since then I have been waiting for the others to catch up... Is that not worth anything, should Devcon stop selling to private customers now?

    Also when I get the price quote... How much more expensive can it be over the Devcon quote in your opinion before I would be allowed to reject it?

    Seriously what ridiculousness, it's the company that created their own problems through their own actions and own restrictions, not I. The very fact that I as a potential customer has required a single second of human working time is because they are techno-phobic and old fashioned. They could just put their product online for ordering if they wanted to sell them to private customers. Ideally we'd have never spoken a single word to each other... If I could have seen what products where actually for sale rather than having to contact someone I could have decided and ordered last week and not a single second of precious human time would have been wasted. There are dozens of coookie cutter webshop softwares operating today, it has never been easier. And then we don't have to deal with bullshit like this.

    They have wasted my time too, I waited many days now for everyone to get a chance to reply, when I could have ordered last week. It is because I am giving everyone the chance to reply that I did not order the Devcon material last week. So doesn't this work both ways? Is my time worth shit you mean? I'm supposed to be shamed into buying from them because they have tied knots around their own feet and keep falling over? I never fucking asked to be called, if possible I leave my phone number out!

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  3. #342
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    I have not heard of Devcon WR-2 and looked at its technical data sheet (TDS). It appears to be formulated precisely for this application. The challenge will be to get the cast iron clean enough for this to adhere well.

    The carbide sharpener looks good. Is your plan to scrape new oil pockets? If so you should get yourself a chunk of cast iron and practice. It helps if you can "erase" it with a surface grinder to get a fresh surface for the next practice round.

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  5. #343
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    I've been given different types of advice on cleaning it, boiling lye is supposedly effective and rinsing in loads and loads of water, but I can't see that being workable for me on the vertical table. Richard King wrote of using acetone or other degreasers and careful heating with a torch to sweat out oils from cast iron. This sounds more doable for me.

    I'm not decided on what I should scrape or not yet, but what I do know is that it's a very useful skill, so I might as well get started on it while I am waiting for the epoxy business to conclude.

    I have a rough outline of what I might do. I don't think I will scrape the vertical table dovetail, I will grind the gouge to make it deeper and so the epoxy will hold better, then after applying the epoxy I will file it flat using my burr file, then perhaps a light touch with a black arkansas stone and call it done.

    I might send in the backing plates to be ground on a surface grinder though, and then scrape them myself for oil, once I have practiced. I will leave the saddle alone for now. There is also some galling damage on one of them I might want to address. Would be very small though

  6. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    I'm not decided on what I should scrape or not yet, but what I do know is that it's a very useful skill, so I might as well get started on it while I am waiting for the epoxy business to conclude.
    A good activity while you sort out the epoxy: lift off the support, remove the back from it, and clean out the grease from the insides.

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  8. #345
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    Good technique on filling deep gouges with epoxy is to use a tool like a "Dremel" with a small tapered "burr" (rotary file) and undercut the edges of the gouge to form a locking undercut to mechanically
    hold the filler material.....Sort of like a dove tail.

    Be careful when grinding the keeper plate gibs....often they are ground with a step to adjust the actual fit up of the sliding surface clearances....careful measurements are needed here to get the renewed surfaces to fit
    properly with proper moving clearance.....but close enough to provide correct geometry....

    Cheers Ross

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  10. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post

    I'm not decided on what I should scrape or not yet, but what I do know is that it's a very useful skill, so I might as well get started on it while I am waiting for the epoxy business to conclude.

    I have a rough outline of what I might do. I don't think I will scrape the vertical table dovetail, I will grind the gouge to make it deeper and so the epoxy will hold better, then after applying the epoxy I will file it flat using my burr file, then perhaps a light touch with a black arkansas stone and call it done.
    Hi Deckeleers,

    Dennis, I haven`t bothered to post on your thread before as you were getting good advice from the forum names I`ve just quickly read through it all again and almost had a nervous breakdown during the freeing of the gib section! One problem with the forum is that although the posts are well meaning, some of them have content beyond the expertise of the poster. It can be very confusing and difficult to weed out the good from the bad.

    What i`ve understood from your posts is that you are an amateur enthusiast that wanted to buy a milling machine on a strict budget and chose to buy an FP2 in unknown condition, which was brave but could turn out to be a disaster. Given your budget constraints you were sensibly advised several times, by people that know, to just clean out all the grease from the machine, lubricate it properly, reassemble it and check the accuracy and function of the machine and just use it.

    However you did go on to mention that you wanted to scrape the slideways and paint the machine as well! Unfortunately, as you have no scraping experience or proper equipment to carry this out, you could waste a lot of time and make the geometry of the machine worse than it is already. If you had the money available then sending the machine to a good slide grinding company would be the speedy and right thing to do, especially if your health is below par.

    Then you proposed to fill in the spalling on the sliding surfaces by using Devcon or another product and filing this flush. You have already been advised that this inlay could break down and cause further spalling to occur. Given that the co-efficient of expansion of the metal and the inlay are different, this is a real danger. Not only that, the inlay which will probably be a metal oxide mixed with epoxy resin may turn out to be abrasive to the surface that is in sliding contact with it.

    Personally I would not do this and forget the painting as well and to say that one cannot produce accurate components from a dirty machine is a bit of a howler! Accuracy depends mostly on the operator that knows the limitations of his machine and can compensate for them.

    I`m sure that you don`t really need to machine to micron accuracy and just want to have fun doing your own thing making parts for your hobby and not spend a lot of money in the process. In this case just take the pragmatic approach as has been suggested.

    My best wishes,

    Alan

  11. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentley1930 View Post
    What i`ve understood from your posts is that you are an amateur enthusiast that wanted to buy a milling machine on a strict budget and chose to buy an FP2 in unknown condition, which was brave but could turn out to be a disaster. Given your budget constraints you were sensibly advised several times, by people that know, to just clean out all the grease from the machine, lubricate it properly, reassemble it and check the accuracy and function of the machine and just use it.
    That is more or less the plan.

    However you did go on to mention that you wanted to scrape the slideways and paint the machine as well!
    This part is not correct. At least not for some years.

    Unfortunately, as you have no scraping experience or proper equipment to carry this out, you could waste a lot of time and make the geometry of the machine worse than it is already. If you had the money available then sending the machine to a good slide grinding company would be the speedy and right thing to do, especially if your health is below par.
    I got a bad cold, I think my health is fine. My intent is to learn scraping and precision machining but that is a long term goal, thinking in years. At most I would flake the backing plates for oil if I decided to have them precision ground later by professionals, after doing the requisite training. So a future project.

    Then you proposed to fill in the spalling on the sliding surfaces by using Devcon or another product and filing this flush. You have already been advised that this inlay could break down and cause further spalling to occur. Given that the co-efficient of expansion of the metal and the inlay are different, this is a real danger. Not only that, the inlay which will probably be a metal oxide mixed with epoxy resin may turn out to be abrasive to the surface that is in sliding contact with it.
    The objection you mention was only if I used cheap not fit for purpose material. The same person who said this (an older swedish machinist with a high degree of experience and expertise) approved my suggestion when I suggested these other products made for the purpose. All the products I have looked at are meant for this application so I do not believe this a danger. If I do not correct the gouge in the dovetail I believe it will be impossible to keep the dirt out, it is such a bad location.

  12. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by there will be no further ingressDennisCA View Post
    The objection you mention was only if I used cheap not fit for purpose material. The same person who said this (an older swedish machinist with a high degree of experience and expertise) approved my suggestion when I suggested these other products made for the purpose. All the products I have looked at are meant for this application so I do not believe this a danger. If I do not correct the gouge in the dovetail I believe it will be impossible to keep the dirt out, it is such a bad location.
    Hi Deckeleers,

    Dennis, The reason that the swarf entered the dovetail is due to lack of care by the previous owner. If you take the correct precautions to prevent further ingress of foreign material, what will happen is that the gouge in the dovetail will just fill with oil, or is that a problem?

    Alan


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