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  1. #561
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    I've been waiting for the paint to harden before I started touching it too much.

    Doing some prep work while I am waiting, hammerite silver had to do, couldn't find the right light green that was there from before:


    Putting in the new wiring:


    Finally put the panel back in place:


    And reassembly of the saddle has begun with the shift lever



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  3. #562
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    I've done the controls and am reattaching them today but one thing I am not clear on is how do I calibrate the speed dials to their proper speeds? The lower ratchet does not have a set amount of turns before it stops that one could use to indicate this is min and max settings, but the system seems to be cyclical. If I had been more clever I'd put up some markings and just not touched the controls, though that might have been easy to get out of alignment by mistake as well.

    One way I tried is to turn the handwheel at the back and see which speed feels slowest but it feels unreliable. There's also the issue of the feeds.

    EDIT: I went through the spindle speeds and I found so far that during one rotation of the lower wheel, no high or low gears are engaged when I throw the upper lever to high or low. I feel this is the key, this probably indicates I've reached the end and it starts over from low. The next speed seemed pretty low I think that is perhaps what it's there for? Calibration?
    Last edited by DennisCA; 05-19-2019 at 02:07 AM.

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    Dennis, while you have the support off, you might consider mounting a hand-operated oil pump on the side. Ross has also done this, and Deckel did it on later models of the FP2. This makes it easy and convenient to lubricate all the X and Z ways, lead screws and the internals. Here is a link to pictures in my long thread from some years ago.

    Note: you can mount an oil pump after the machine is back together, but it would be easier to do it now because you need to drill and tap four holes in the side of the support.

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    I've been thinking about that, though as you said I had intended to do it later some time. Last night I reassembled a few more things, handwheel assembly, X-axis stop assembly and X-axis clutch assembly.

    My renovation budget has been totaled (ain't getting no vise for a while now) since I have reached that stage in my life where I need glasses and they were expensive lenses to compenaste for astigmatism and other stuff. 700 euros for a pair. Yikes!

    EDIT:

    What I wrote about the speed dial not engaging on one selection was completely wrong. I went through the speeds on the lower end of the spectrum and found the high and low speed that way by observing the horizontal spindle moving when I turned the hand wheel. The speed that did not engage was 160 RPM. It seems it was the inching wheel on the back that needed to be tightened, then it started working as it should. I remember someone earlier in the thread telling me the inching wheel was important not just for being able to rotate the spindle by hand but keeping the gear shaft in place.



    So I got the upper dials calibrated now, now to do the same for the feeds.

    Also a look at the chaos which is my shop. Everything has given way to this one project, all the surfaces have been taken over and it's not possible to do anything else. I'm looking forward to the machine being back together just so I can start cleaning and reorganizing.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    Everything has given way to this one project, all the surfaces have been taken over and it's not possible to do anything else. I'm looking forward to the machine being back together just so I can start cleaning and reorganizing.
    I understand this very well. At this stage I also get nervous about whether or not I will remember where everything goes and concerned that "little bits" from other projects get mixed in. It is one reason I take a lot of photos.

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    OK it's not so easy to figure out the feeds... Turning the inching wheel doesn't seem to make the feeds engage. I can only get them to engage when I use the rapid traverse lever. Is this by design?

    EDIT:
    Also installed the new sight glasses and I have drained the gear box of the old oil. The manual says to fill it up with gasoline to wash out all the old oil so I guess I'll do that next.
    Last edited by DennisCA; 05-19-2019 at 01:43 PM.

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    Started reading about flushing the gear box and does anyone have any suggestions beyond what the manual says. It does not actually say gasoline but petroleum. Which is more open to interpretation. Am I right in that there are no sensitive bearings in the gearbox that can get ruined by crud as some people have warned against when doing a flush.

    I think maybe it's best to fill it with gasoline or kerosene, use the inching wheel to rotate it a little and drain again. Then fill with some motor oil (old style single weight motor oil without additives) as an inbetween flushing agent to get all the petroleum out, then after that is drained away I fill with the real oil I got from Franz Singer.

    Also the oil is dark, but I do not feel any crud in it. I also ran a magnet over the container I put in to see if any metal was caught, but did not yield anything.

    And I might as well post the latest installations.

    New sight glass with bleed hole


    This one also got replaced


    Cleaned up hand wheels with new paint.




    And the X-axis trip lever is back in place:

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    Please, no gasoline. There's too much risk of fire or worse. It is not necessary.

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    Yes I am wary of gasoline but it that's what I associated with the word petroleum, but I am not sure, kerosene I guess might work as well.

    EDIT:
    Been researching some more and so far my understanding is thus. Apparently flushing is an old practice that's supposedly not required anymore. It was common up to the 1940s because the oils in machines then tended to be low quality and made of unstable mixes that required flushing with petroleum products. This hasn't really been the case for decades so I could do with just using some in between oil like the single weight motor oil I mentioned to flush if I really wanted to get all the old oil out.

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    Petroleum is often used for oil lamps, the small kind used in homes that have a wick and some liquid fuel inside. You should be able to get this locally. Here is a German ebay link: Petroleum 1l | eBay

    I think flushing is a good idea. It should cost you less than 20 Euros for the petroleum and will get out any goo that has accumulated in the past 60 years.

    I suggest that you wait until the machine is back together, then fill the oil sump with petroleum and run the spindle at a few hundred rpm for five minutes (no load) and similarly for the feeds. Then drain the petroleum and refill with oil. The fact that some petroleum might remain is no problem, it will very slightly reduce the viscosity of the oil.

    The petroleum will act as a lubricant during this flush, it is a form of light oil.

    PS: your machine is looking very good. The contrast between the headstock and the parts below is striking!

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    I believe if as you say petroleum is for oil lamps, it is in other words kerosene. I bought a 5 liter container of it last november for this project. The jug is almost empty, I have several liters of it left but it's dirty and in a tank I use for soaking parts. But it's cheap to buy, 4 euros for a liter.

    Also known as lysfotogen in swedish or lamppuöljy in finnish.

    EDIT:
    BTW I was hoping to run the machine now before complete reassembly. In order to figure out the feed speed dial I think it would help if I can look at the uncovered gears before the saddle is back to determine feed speeds and see how fast they rotate.

    Since that can't be done with the inching wheel I was going to hook up the motor to a contactor and turn it on and then use the feeds. That's the reason I started on the gearbox so I could run the machine during this test with fresh oil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    I believe if as you say petroleum is for oil lamps, it is in other words kerosene. It's cheap to buy, 4 euros for a liter.
    That's the stuff!

    Since that can't be done with the inching wheel I was going to hook up the motor to a contactor and turn it on and then use the feeds. That's the reason I started on the gearbox so I could run the machine during this test with fresh oil.
    Use the kerosene for that phase, it will do a good job of lubrication for the few minutes that you will run and will get the flushing process started. After it is back together run it a few more minutes, then drain the kerosene and fill with oil.

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    I would not flush the gear boxes...this is old think! Machine tools keep the lube clean by settlement.....the heavies settle to the bottom of the gear cases and accumulate...no problem with that, Flushing can loosen the settled
    heavies , and could easily just make it soft and more easily stirred up into the next oil change.....Possible to create more trouble than cure....

    If that were my machine i would wait till i could run it (main motor connected, feed chain connected...

    Drain the original oil and allow it to drain for some time...If possible tilt the machine toward the drain plug holes.

    Replace the drain plugs, fill with the proper grade of clean oil.....Run the machine till the gear boxes get a little warm...then immediately drain the oil and allow it to again drain for a bit, refill with a 2and
    round of fresh oil and you will be good to go.......
    Allow the fresh filling to set for a day or so before again running the machine......

    Cheers Ross

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    Would you do that only this time considering it's the first time in my possession and the previous schedule is unknown. Or every time it's time to change the oil?

    And is a yearly interval required for a non-commerical setting where the machine doesn't see daily usage? I've been wondering about some of the intervalls in the manual and how they relate to me.

    EDIT:
    Darn this looks like an expensive operation. No cheap suitable oils locally. Well the liter price is OK I guess but only comes in 20 liter kegs in Finland, and at a time when I can't afford any extra expenses.

    I only have 2.5 liters of the oil from Singer, which I had hoped might be enough to fill both gear boxes once. Could order more I guess, but the liter cost is bigger even if the total is lower. I had hoped to only need the 2.5 liters and buy a 20l keg in a year or two.
    Last edited by DennisCA; 05-20-2019 at 12:35 PM.

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    Think this time...change when the oil shows any color....Not like an IC engine or such...no real contaminants there other than
    dirt (coming in at the "Y" slide or coolant contamination) And very small amounts of metallic particles from wear of internal parts....

    If she sees light occasional use...maybe next scheduled change in 3- 5 years.....If the oil looks dirty (any color) then change it sooner.

    Would want to change the oil feed wicks for the "Y" slide while you were doing maintenance/rebuild work.
    Un-waxed cotton candle wicks works well here (crafts store) .

    Cheers Ross

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  20. #576
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    I had been wondering for quite a while why the headstock is to be lubricated with gear oil instead of way oil in the manual. I guess if part of the oil eventually makes it's way down into the gear box reservoir that is the reason. So the two different types do not mix.

    I think I'll proceed for now with saddle reassembly for now until I get some more oil.

    EDIT:

    Does anyone know, can you use hydraulic oil in a gear box, or does it need to be specific gear box oil? Because from some of the stuff I've read, some gear boxes run on hydraulic oil and I've seen it recommended for other machines.

    If I could buy for instance, some Shell Tellus S2 68 hydraulic oil, then I could get it locally for half the price of the Mobilgear 600 XP oil that Singer uses. That would be much more doable for me.

    EDIT 2: I have done some research and asked around and it seems it would be a perfectly suitable oil for my needs. I will buy a 20 liter keg of this. I also need oil I remebered for my lathe's gear box.
    Last edited by DennisCA; 05-21-2019 at 09:20 AM.

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    Ordered the oil, it has AW properties I noted as well. I am not sure if my lathe wants ISO 68 oil, some want 46 or 32 viscosity, but it's what it'll get. The lathe needs to be moved and accessed from the back and the gear box lifted out. good thing I have a crane now...

    It was said you need a lathe to work on the Deckel and it sure has come in handy a few times. Last night I gave it a good cleaning, the tray was filling up. One of my sons finds it an interesting machine, though when I start it he thinks it's too loud.



    P.S. I know about the chuck key... a mistake to leave it in, I was getting ready to chuck up a piece of threaded rod when I got a surprise visit from the boy (Daniel), distractions are like that.

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  23. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    ...If possible tilt the machine toward the drain plug holes.
    Cheers Ross
    OOh...I wouldn't dare tilt an FP2. (I once nearly did and almost wet my pants..)

    Cheers
    Erik

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    I hooked up the machine today and started it. There is a sound that to me sounds like motor bearings in need of replacement, it went away with time but I think I need to remove the motor and at least grease the bearings, or replace them (that's familiar territory at least). Also the feeds don't seem to work. I engaged the headstock feed but it barely moves. Only if I use the rapid feed lever does it move.

    I can also stop the currently exposed front bevel gears just by putting my finger on them. I think this means the shear pin broke, which I assume happened when the table galled in place and got sold.

    Also when I release the rapid feed lever the gears don't quite mesh up properly so there is a clunking noise for a second or so, is that normal? Doesn't seem it ought to be but maybe it's related to the above issue.

    And looking in the headstock oil reservoir there is just a lot of black sludge at the bottom, I wonder if they tried putting grease in there too...

    --

    Went out and looked and yes the shear pin is broken off, and it won't come out either, even with the slide hammer.


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