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  1. #681
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    I had to go and open the spindle again to get peace of mind. I was wrong, ring 6 does manage to tighten the thrust bearings and remove the play. What I felt was the inner race of the bearing "C181NA", those have slop but those are not taken up by the ring so things are as they should be. Lock nut 9 and the spring washer though, they keep the inner races in place.

    Lock nut 9 and the spring washer was also the only way I could see to adjust the end play, when we're talking of how the spindle is able to move axially in the spindle housing. When I insert the spindle in teh spindle housing and the thrust washer stack is adjusted tightly with the ring so I cannot feel any play with my fingers in the thrust washers, then nothing still holds the spindle in place, it moves freely axially until lock nut 9 and it's washer is inserted. I then screw in nut 9 and adjust until I got 6 microns of play again.

    I noticed upon my second disassembly the inner spindle is kept in place even after the lock nut is removed though. I assume this is due to the tapered nature of the spindle and bearing race, they get mated to each other when the lock nut is adjusted.

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    The long reach head and vertical head is now reassembled as well





    Reassembly of the vertical head was tricky, all the t-nuts fell to the bottom of the slot. I had to inject grease around the t-nuts to hold them in place, and then I had to make short lengths of threaded rod that I put in the t-nuts, otherwise I don't know how I would've been able to get all the t-nuts lined up. After I had the bolts through I could just remove them and put the regular bolts back in, the grease around the t-nuts kept them in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    ...

    P.S.

    I am going through this thread with the disassembly fresh in my mind:
    1964 FP2 horizontal spindle adjustment

    So far after reading just the first post, I would say that I have exactly the same issue as Thanos, parts 6 & 7 does not actually adjust anything, it just holds the bearings roughly in place no matter how tightly I try and get that ring. It seems our spindles are alike. But what I did was that I adjusted the play using the lock nut 9. This was obviously how it was done by the earlier operators. I am really confused by this, because now we have two spindles with the same issue. Is this indicative of something wrong in the spindle? Did Deckel make some odd spindles with a different layout?

    I must keep reading...

    Also went out and tested the radial play on the spindle, at the rear it is .01mm and at the front only 4-6 microns.
    Hi there Dennis,

    scroll through that thread. I have some misleading information to begin with, since one of my issues was that I did not have the proper tool to REALLY tighten nut 9.
    Then, I had to grind a bit off the spacer to bring my radial play at the rear point from 0.008mm down to 0.001 mm, as per Mr. Singer's suggestions (via Bruce). I think you will need to go there as well...Have a look, it's all in the thread, along with Singer's tips.

    BR,
    Thanos

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    Wow, your machine is looking really good and it seems that you are taking good care of the internals as well. Should be in action soon. Please post some photos of "first chips".

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    Thanks, we'll see when it happens, Still some strands to tie up (DRO install, various small components like stops, the electrical box). I'll make sure to photo it when it happens.

    Thanos yes I saw that it was very important, unfortunately I don't have that tool either, but I will soon enough I guess. I'll have to see how it performs as is in the future.

    I spent this day emptying the shop as much as possible and doing a complete reorganization. The mill will stand next to the lathe now.





    The advantage of this configuration is that the lathe is accessible from the rear, which I need to do in order to service the gear box on the lathe. And they don't interfere with each other any this way for a small footprint. Given that the deckel is operated from the side this setup made sense to me. I have considered connecting it to the deckel electrical box to reduce the amount of cables being run across the floor.

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    Plus you can insert a really long part through your lathe's spindle and support it on a steady that would rest on the (adjustable for height!) mill's table!

    (in my case, I would have to drill a hole through the FP2 to fit something long through the spindle on the Colchester....but I really had no other alternative...)

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    I've been spending the last few days on the shop reorganization, but today I worked on the electrics. I decided to add another 3-phase outlet to the electrical box. That way I won't need to run a cable for the lathe.



    The additional outlet is not hooked up to the switch but is always live if the electrical box is hooked up.



    Almost everything is hooked up. One really weird thing is the yellow cable that goes to a regular 230V outlet on the front, I tested the terminals it's hooked up to and it's hooked up phase to phase (!), so anyone plugging anything in there expecting 230V will get 400V single phase. I have no idea what the previous owners used this for, but good thing I didn't plug in anything.

    I also removed this transformer to make room for the 3ph outlet. I am not sure if it's original or what purpose it served. It's a 230 - 100V transformer but only 100W. Not sure what need I'd have for that.



    I also re-routed some of the wall outlets, fortunately an easy task since they are all just outside the walls and not hidden. I decided I really don't want to have a cable across the floor so I routed the outlet to the ceiling instead, as close as I got it, then I will drop down a power cable to the electrical box.


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    Having a narrow bench along the wall facing the lathe and operators side of the Deckel would be nice....
    Place to put your tools,tooling, drawings and instruments while running the machines.
    Storage below for collets, arbors cutters, vise,clamps, etc....White board on the wall also nice to sketch out projects and keep track of work done and yet to be completed...
    Cheers Ross

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    The tool wall behind the lathe will probably contain some tooling. And I am going to add some shelves on the other nearby wall for storage. I have a small dry erase board I like to draw real simple stuff in.

    Also I was wrong that the outlet is always live. It is behind the breaker HS1. I must have been tired last night.

    Bruce, you know your electrics, can you tell me why on the schematic the neutral and earth are seemingly connected. Someone mentioned this and even drew it out, said this is not proper wiring in modern setting, looking in the cabinet though the earth and neutral are not connected so that is good. But I wonder what was the reason for it being in the schematic?


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    In Germany neutral and earth are (sometimes) connected.
    I bought a koepfer 135 gearhobber and this had the same problem.

    The Jung HF50 i bought a similar story. Although i bought that one in Holland, the factory where it came from had no problems. I kept having problems till i found out the earth and neutral connectors were connected.

    Greetings Peter


    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    Bruce, you know your electrics, can you tell me why on the schematic the neutral and earth are seemingly connected.
    I know electronics but am very weak on this part of electrics. So I can not answer your question. What I am sure of is the following in the modern German/European system:

    A - There are five conductors, L1, L2 and L3 which are the 3-phase power lines, N, which is the neutral, and E which is earth.
    B - 230V loads are connected to L1 and N, or L2 and N, or L3 and N.
    C - Three phase loads are connected to L1, L2 and L3.
    D - The E and N are connected at least at one point, often in the distribution box
    E - The metal external parts of machines are connected to E
    F - The logic for connecting E and N at OTHER points is often determined by the question: what happens if the N conductor is broken between the supply and the machine? Will this then subject 230V loads to 400V? See for example this diagram: Neutralleiter – Wikipedia

    My understanding is that there are different standards/conventions for this, which are labeled by TN-C, TN-S, TN-C-S. (The "TN" comes from the French terre neutre.) There is also other conventions called "TT" and "IT". I would suggest that you inquire with someone local and competent about what TN or TT or IT grounding system is in use in Finland or in your part of Finland. Then read about how that works. In your case the power cabinet is meant to feed both a three-phase load and single-phase loads, so this together with the convention in use in Finland will probably dictate where and how the ground and neutral should be connected (or not).

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    I have spoken to someone with the know-how in Sweden, same person who made the image above, we have the same electrical system in Finland so it carries over. And in the olden days ground and neutral would sometimes be connected in the same way Peter just mentioned, "fulnolla" this practice was called.

    But this is not the case here and the system is set up for all five connections (L1,L2,L3,N,PE) properly.

    I was also wrong on the 400V single phase stuff, you will only get 230V, I got this completely wrong because the multimeter lead me down the wrong path last night, double checking with the schematic today and things are fine on that front actually.

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    Switches hooked up, first test runs. Just checking the noise level. It's IMO very quiet at all speeds with the horizontal spindle. The vertical spindle gets more noisy at higher speeds but it's soley because of the gears inside the long reach head, the straight ones. Not excessive noise I guess, but the spindles themselves are nice and quiet IMO.





    Haven't bothered hooking up a 12V source to the buttons yet.

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    Time to make some chips!

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    Oh right.... Well I'm currently prepping the table parts for painting

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    Parts are prepped for masking. For these parts I decided to get serious and I used a hot lye bath, dangerous stuff but oh so effective. It was so effective I cleaned a bunch off small parts too. Makes the ultrasonic cleaner look like a chump. Also used a pressure washer and compressor to blow dry. Then WD-40 on a rag on the more sensitive areas.



    I am beat now, tomorrow I will mask the parts to be painted....

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    Painted the work table and reassembled it, now all I need is a vise.





    Also the horizontal mill support got refinished, here I am trying it out for the first time. I note that with the cutter rotation and the motor going the correct way, this would result in climb milling if I am feeding from right to left, or away from me standing on the operators side. Is the Deckel designed so you feed from left to right, or towards you?



    Next step is to begin reassembling the DRO I think, and hook up the 12V so I can have some lights on the on off buttons. Would be nice to paint he doors too this week perhaps. Last week of vacation now and when that is gone my productivity is gone too. Back to a day a week of shop time more or less then.

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    I have fitted a 12V power source now, bit of an effort to make the extra wires fit the cable cover I had but I managed it. I hooked it up internally to the 230V supply and the 12V transformer is inside the machine itself.



    I have successfully reinstalled the Y-axis scale today but the X-axis scale is going to be another task entirely. I will have to make a new mounting system for it. Looking at the scale and the underside of the table and the scale has a long T-slot that a bracket is already attached to



    The underside of the table has two M6 screws from the earlier scale




    I think these can serve as mounting points still but modified. I will make a square bar with a slot in it that I attach to the underside of the table using the two existing screw holes. The slot in the bar will provide a place to attach the aluminum bracket that is on top of the scale currently. I think I should get or make more angle brackets too so I can attach the scale at both ends and center.

    For this I will need to do some milling so I guess I know what my first project will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    The slot in the bar will provide a place to attach the aluminum bracket that is on top of the scale currently. I think I should get or make more angle brackets too so I can attach the scale at both ends and center.

    For this I will need to do some milling so I guess I know what my first project will be.
    For a few simple shiney-wood brackets? Only because hacksaw blades and files are scarce, hardy Finns having mistook them for jerky or breakfast granola bars and et them.

    Don't upset the system. Rooshin smugglers salvage the resulting shat cut-nails outta Finnish outhouses and terlet bowls to keep their submarine fleet - and their economy - patched together.

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    Install tip:
    If you are mounting the "X" spar below the vertical table, position the spar as far away from the operators side of the slide as possible. (move spar X-minus)
    This will give an asymmetrical install, and some will object. The reason is that when the slide is moved toward the operators side of the machine (X- minus) if its offset the spar will not
    become a clearance problem for your hands with the "Z" axis hand wheel. Beauty is in the details.
    Cheers Ross


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