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  1. #701
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    Here are some shots of the spar install on my FP2....
    Keep everything as close as possible so its not in the way.
    Can still use the mechanical trips.










    Cheers Ross

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    That explains the original install which was not centered but seemed biased towards the door side of the machine instead. I hadn't thought of the scale itself interfering. This new scale is longer and a centered install would have stuck out on both sides a little bit.

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    Scales can be shortened.....Never done this myself, but its been posted about on this forum....Might be nice to have as little hanging out as possible.
    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Scales can be shortened.....Never done this myself, but its been posted about on this forum....Might be nice to have as little hanging out as possible.
    Cheers Ross
    Just shortened a Heidenhain scale a few months ago. Gonna do another one in the next few weeks.

    Hook up air to purge the inside of scale (either with included ports at the end of the scale or rig something else up), cut through aluminum housing just shy of the glass scale (sometimes flipping the scale a few times to remove as much of the housing a possible and give access to cut the glass), setup vacuum to remove glass debris, cut through glass scale with any diamond tooling (I use a cheap diamond cutoff disc with my rotary tool), dress the end of the glass scale with a diamond file to remove any burrs that otherwise may break off and contaminate the scale after assembly, machine the end of the scale housing to match the end caps used (plan out the scale length beforehand to accommodate for the end caps), flush the scale with iso alcohol and air to remove any residual debris and assemble scale.

    EDIT: If you care about reference marks ensure you find them before cutting the scale as some scales only have them on one end.

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    I read in the manual about a port for pressurized air but can't remember having seen such a port. I have been a bit scared of attempting to shorten the scales, but perhaps it'd be for the best in the long run...

    I have ordered a vise so Í can actually do some milling. It's a smaller vise, 90mm precision vise like the type Stefan Gotteswinter uses in his videos, got it from the same pl ace even. 90mm width, 120mm capacity, think it will be enough for most my requirements, if not I'll have to go bigger in the future.... But for now it was within my budget.

    I did find a gressel 125mm hydraulic vise, but it was 180 euros and in Sweden, so even more expensive despite being used and it's jaws having been extesively milled into (though they can be replaced).


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    Hi there,

    regarding fitting the scale on X axis, it was also not trivial for me. I faced the following issues/requirements:
    - scale could not protrude from the face of the vertical table, I want to be able to fit tables to any height I want, or other accessories, or even parts.
    - trip dogs should be accessible
    - minimal modifications on the machine should be made (+ I don't have a second mill or the stamina to remove castings for modifications) and I could not afford a super slim scale.
    - shouldn't interfere with handwheels

    So, I mounted the scale seriously overhanging towards the door side. This way I have met all the above requirements. Head of the scale is mounted on the side of the vertical slide, so I didn't have to do any modifications to the castings. All works perfectly. It's just that the scale (+ mount) protrudes around 100 mm from the door-side end of the X slide. I feared that I might damage it, but for 18 months now I haven't come even close to hurting it. Even if that happens, it's just a 80 euro scale....

    I'll try to find a picture or take one tonight.

    BR,
    Thanos

    (or might skip posting a picture, since most here won't like it at all )

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    I would welcome any pictures and suggestions. An upside with a cheap scale I suppose. I don't think I can prevent it protruding at the front myself, the scale is quite large in all dimensions compared to the one it replaces.

    And I also don't like to modify the machine further, it has two holes already drilled and tapped for this so I am looking to reuse those two holes somehow. I haven't given much thought to the mechanical trips, I put them back in along with all other trip levers for the Z and Y axis but left them at their max settings. I also got lazy and made these black, not wanting to mix more 2K paint for these small items.



    I don't know what these are for:




  10. #708
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    The fitting on the right is for the light. Bolts to the left side of the machine you should be able to find where it goes. Some time ago Alfa posted information on the thread and the light holding fitting that screws in to that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    I would welcome any pictures and suggestions.
    This post shows Kyriakos' shortening a Heidenhain scale:
    Repairing Heindenhain VRZ 753B + LS803 scales

    The fourth picture in the following post shows the "factory" X-axis scale install on my FP2. Note that it is behind the plane of the vertical table, and does not interfere with the stop dogs:
    Repairing Heindenhain VRZ 753B + LS803 scales

    And I also don't like to modify the machine further, it has two holes already drilled and tapped for this so I am looking to reuse those two holes somehow.
    I used to feel this way, but have shifted my view. This is at least partly because of what Ross wrote in this forum. Modifications that improve the functionality of the machine are perfectly acceptable, provided that you do it in a clean and workmanlike way that is consistent with the quality of the rest of the machine. In other words a non-expert looking at your machine should not be able to tell that the modifications were done after manufacture.

    IMO it is worth it to machine pockets or flats and to make threaded holes to get the DRO mounted correctly, because the DRO really does make the machine much easier to use. But do it right the first time, and do it well.

    I don't know what these are for
    As already said, the larger object is a holder for a Waldmann fluorescent lamp. I made a new one from aluminium that could also hold the coolant nozzle, and sold the original on Ebay.

    The object on the left with the machined flat surface is for holding gage blocks on the X-axis holder or on the machined "holder" surfaces on the Y and Z axes. See page 11 of the FP2 manual for instructions on how that works:



    The object on the right (I think, but am not sure) in your photos is the upper stop on Z, which is meant to prevent the support from being moved so far up that it moves past the end of the Z box ways. There should be a pin on the support which comes into contact with the stop at the uppermost limit.
    Last edited by ballen; 07-24-2019 at 11:00 AM.

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  13. #710
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    Point of reference FYI....You have already gone "Black" on the lamp bracket.
    In truth believe that as original that item was painted "Hammertone" grey....As was the "Y" axis trip stops on your vintage machine.

    The"X" and "Z" trip stops were done i believe in black oxide, and not painted. The oxide coating makes them more resistant to being chipped and scratched
    with the application of tools when moving and setting the stops.
    Later machines used a flatter style fully machined trip stop on the "Y" that mimicked the "X" style stops and by then all were done in the black oxide, but the lamp bracket remained in "Hammertone" grey

    Cheers Ross

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    All the ones I painted were in the same color as the rest of the machine, all the other stops where black oxide and I have left that finish as is. But I really wasn't up for another 2k setup and then cleaning session. Mentally speaking I mean. Hence the black rather than the original color. Should perhaps have had some 1k RAL 7010 just for small details.

    Bruce you are right about the part being for the Z-axis, I found an old photo and there the part is.

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  16. #712
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    Think the black on the "Y" looks fine.....Move on , time to make something other than a machine repair part.
    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen
    If you want, you can "enable" a reference mark about 35mm from your new end-of-measurement point. How do do this? Look at the scale with a jewelers loupe or magnifying glass or low power microscope. You will see "reference marks" at regular intervals. Almost all of these reference marks are "disabled" with a little spot of paint or glue. So to "enable" a reference mark near the end of your freshly-shortened scale, carefully remove the spot of paint or glue from the desired reference mark near the new end of the scale. If you fail at this, no problem, because that reference mark is not working anyway.
    Thanks for linking to that ballen! I had no idea about the extra reference marks. Just went out to confirm on my LS403 scale. I scratched the glue off of the bottom of the scale and enabled a second, more convenient, reference mark (acetone and toluene didn't touch it). You just saved me about 15 cranks of the handle every time I start the machine up. Thanks so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    But I really wasn't up for another 2k setup and then cleaning session.
    I have found a good solution for this, for small things. There is a company called "Maston" (which is based in Finland, by the way) that makes a spray paint called "Maston Two" or "Maston 2". This can be sprayed from a can, and is a genuine 2 component paint, so very solvent-resistant when cured. The unique thing about it is that you can use small quantities from the spray can for up to 3 years. You don't need to toss the can out after the first use.

    2K TWO spray - Spray paints - Maston

    My first experience with this paint was not positive. It did not flow well and harden well. It turns out that this was bad luck, because the first production batches of this paint were contaminated with water. The company replaced the bad can and the new stuff works very well. It sprays and flows nicely, and cures to a true 2k hard solvent-resistent layer.

    This paint is pricey in Germany but very convenient for little things. The color range includes colors that are close enough to original for small parts.

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    Thanks for the links, Bruce.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    I used to feel this way, but have shifted my view. This is at least partly because of what Ross wrote in this forum. Modifications that improve the functionality of the machine are perfectly acceptable, provided that you do it in a clean and workmanlike way that is consistent with the quality of the rest of the machine. In other words a non-expert looking at your machine should not be able to tell that the modifications were done after manufacture.

    IMO it is worth it to machine pockets or flats and to make threaded holes to get the DRO mounted correctly, because the DRO really does make the machine much easier to use. But do it right the first time, and do it well.
    I marked in red the bit that makes me unwilling to go modifying the underside of the vertical table I don't have the confidence that I could really do anything down there aside from maybe drilling out the holes and threading a size larger but I think they are M5s already which I think is good enough.

    So I am looking at keeping those holes and use them to mount the scales, if I shorten them I might be able to mount directly to the underside like Ross pictures shows. Or I will machine some bits that will allow me to attach the scales in as optimal a way that I can see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BugRobotics View Post
    I had no idea about the extra reference marks. Just went out to confirm on my LS403 scale. I scratched the glue off of the bottom of the scale and enabled a second, more convenient, reference mark (acetone and toluene didn't touch it). You just saved me about 15 cranks of the handle every time I start the machine up.
    Happy to hear that! Goes to show how useful PM can be.

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  24. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    I went out and checked and the top gib was already loose, it looks to be intact at least. I've tried tapping on the operator side but I am afraid to wrench too hard on the handwheel. I added more oil and went back in for the night.

    I went through some of the boxes with accessories, photo'ed a few:


    Reminds me of some kind of collet holder


    Looks like an adjustable boring head.




    Frankensteins milling attachment

    Horizontal milling arbors and support, there is a 4th arbor off photo.





    Also some collets and more holders in a smaller box, and lots of very dirty stuff that doesn't look very useful, lots of homemade strange stuff.
    Great thread and thanks for posting all the photos and video. Nice to see so much support from so many different PM members. Great work on the mill.
    Not much help here but I do have two similar collet chucks that you asked about. I never found out any info about them. These have the grove for the CNC / hydraulic draw bar unlike yours. I only have the one collet for them (16mm). I don't think I'll ever use it. If you would like it pm me your address and i'll send it out. If you do find out the manufacture and or the collet name please pass it on to me.

    I am slowly working on cleaning up an FP3 but don't think I'll tear it down as much as your 2.
    nice work.
    What is the knob on the vertical head ram for? Just a clutch dog or is that two speed?

    Andy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 014.jpg   015.jpg  

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    Knob on the base of the vertical head is an :IN/OUT" dog clutch to disengage the drive from the vertical head.
    On the long reach heads the vertical head support stays on the machine for either horizontal or vertical milling.

    Don't want or need the vertical spinning when going horizontal,hence the in/out clutch...

    Need to get that "face mill" out of your shop pronto! That "tool" can cause unrest in your other cutting tools and before you know what happened all your work
    will turn to crap,just like that cutter....Its contagious.

    Cheers Ross

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    Fortunately I do not think that particular piece has ever been used in this mill, it doesn't have a pull stud, not even a tapped hole to to mount one. I think it just got bundled with the machine, as did some other tools. I figured I'd cut the milling head off though and save the 40 taper part, I think it could be chucked in the lathe and fitted with an M16 threaded hole for a pull stud. Then it could perhaps be used to mount some other tool.

    By the way, if this face cutter is dangerous due to the unbalanced mass, how safe is it to use a tool like a fly cutter?


    Andy,
    thanks for the offer but like you I don't plan to use this tool either, it is meant to be used with some kind of threaded tap and I don't want to be locked into such specialty tooling. I managed to find some info about it and it's made in Germany by Bahmüller Spanzeuge, though they were not interested in giving any info on it. Someone said it looked like a system for Clarkson threaded cutters. Nothing of interest to me at any rate. The mill came with an ER-32 collet holder and I will use it instead.

    Considered selling it, but not a lot of info on line what a reasonable price would be.

  28. #720
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    Hi to all,

    here is my approach on mounting the (cheap chinese) scale on X axis.



    and showing the head mount here:



    As I said, it was absolutely crucial to have the scale behind the vertical table plane. Plus, have the trip dogs within reach.
    These requirements are, indeed, satisfied, a the cost of the mount protruding from the left side of the table a bit. The whole length protruding from the machined table is around 100 mm. But if you take into account the side cover and the screw-end cover, then we are talking about nothing much. In any case, a risk I am more than willing to take, and one that has worked out just fine, for 18 months now.

    BR,
    Thanos

    PS. asymmetrical mounting was an idea dropped by my friend Kyriakos!

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