Deckel FP2 acquired (Preliminary) - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    The screw and table did not move, well I think the screw moves minimally but is stopped by the tables refusal to budge.

    I believe you remove these rings when you are removing the hand wheels and that's why the handwheel moves, I could have screwed it off entirely I think going the other way..

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    I really can't remember: I think handwheel is fixed by a taper pin and these nuts adjust the thrust bearings between the leadscrew and the table. So, if you removed the gap there must be some air between table and screw, there must be some play there. But can't be sure, you'll find out soon I guess

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    Maybe I should try for a video later. I am currently reading about oiling the FP2, it is apparently a lot of work. Apparently the fittings are compatible with grease guns, hence why they are so full of grease so often. And an oil gun looks just like a grease gun:

    Oljypuristin Pressol 1262 << Oljypuristimet / oljyruiskut << Tooloutlet

    I wonder if I should replace the oilers with an automatic system, or just get one of these above. My little oil can I use on the lathe will not suffice here I believe.

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    First order is to get a relevant parts manual...One that is correct for your machine build...
    Without such any disassembly or attempted adjustment is just guess work. Have to know how the components interact and fit together.

    Would bet that the issue with your "X" axis is not the fault of the slide lock....Even on a good machine that's properly adjusted, the "X" slide lock will hardly hold the slide form moving....makes it a bit stiff, but in no way
    will it lock the motion..its just not that effective.

    That slide i believe is locked up by something being jammed....perhaps an over zealous adjustment of the slide gibs....Investigate and proceed with caution to avoid damage.
    Be sure that the feed lever is in the center position (neutral) , and that it feels like its connected (not flopping about).

    Check to see if your machine has been greased by pulling some of the "zerk style" fittings on the vertical slide. If grease is present in the drilling downstream of the fittings, then grease was used ....if so (as photos suggest) then disassembly , and through cleaning is the remedy.....No shortcuts here. Machine lube system was not designed to use grease, and it will prevent oil form getting to all the proper points.
    There are some very through posts done by Bruce on the process of "de-greasing" an FP2 that should be on your "must read" list.
    Cheers Ross

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    Yes there is a lot of material to read through, I have a parts list for an internal motor FP2, though it feels difficult to get through it because it's in german, but I can study the diagrams. I have read Bruces thread on the service he did, but only once and doing so mostly skimming and looking at the pictures.

    As I now have the machine in hand I will be able to relate more practically to what I am reading. Hopefully...

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    Based on what I have read, and the condition of the gib screw I removed tonight, the gib is stuck and stuck good. I don't know how they managed to get it like this but I am not sure how to get it working. I did remove the oilers and filled them with kerosene and blew that out with compressed oil and did that a few times until it seemed to run clear. But I don't think that is enough.







    I think the hand wheel and cover plate can be removed entirely from the vertical table, perhaps if I did that I could get a straight on access to try and tap the gib back out with a brass punch. Perhaps a few days of penetrating oil might help.

    EDIT: Even closer look in the computer at the photo indicates the retaining part of the gib has sheared off.


    And a closer look at the scale head... Don't think a repair is possible.


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    The end of the gib has a notch which should engage the gib screw. On your machine, the notch has broken off, so the gib screw came out but not the gib. So the gib is jammed.

    The good news is that I can see the gib poking out on the operator side. So make up a brass punch which you can use with a hammer to tap on the gib (operator side) to get it moving towards the door side. Once you have moved it a few cm it will come free and you can remove it by hand. If you can get a friend to help you, then they should try turning the handwheel in the direction that frees the gib as you tap on it. That may help it to slip out.

    Franz Singer can sell you a brand new gib, if the existing one can not be salvaged. The new one will have to be scraped to fit.

    The scale can go in the trash, AFTER you have photographed the label (hopefully still intact). If there is no label, then more photos and measurements are needed to identify it. Probably it's the same type of scale as on Y and Z. What are those?

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    It is very hard to get in there with a punch, so perhaps the cover on the operator side has to come off, I mean that is probably were this was heading anyway. I hope the gib can be fixed, perhaps brazing a new bit on. I mean I wanted to learn to scrape but not straight from zero to tapered gib fitting... What is the cost of a new gib? I have a hunch we're talking hundreds of euros myself.

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    You should also loosen the top gib, if your machine has one. See photo below.

    If you take off the cover on the operator side, that removes your ability to push the table with the lead screw.

    Perhaps you can jam a piece of brass or steel in between the end cover on the operator side and the end of the gib. Then as you screw the table away from the operator side, it will push out the gib as it moves. Once it has moved even a few mm it will all come free.

    Above all, be patient. You'll get the gib out without further damage, if you keep your cool and avoid excessive force.

    PS: perhaps the gib is undamaged, just it was not installed correctly. Someone put in the gib, then put in the gib screw. (They should go together, with the gib screw head in the notch of the gib.)


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    Hi Dennis

    Just picked up on this thread. Congratulations on getting your FP2.

    Ballen and a Ross to name a few will get you up and running ... Just take your time.

    My FP2 has just a bit of grease in it and fortunately minimal work had mine back to oil.

    Enjoy

    John

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    I think a new gib is 200-300 Euros, but am not sure. Probably Franz can sell you one that has a Turcite layer, which should (a) be easier to scrape and (b) result in a tigher fit along the axis.

    I don't know if brazing a new engagement slot is a good idea or not. IMO it's worth a try. If the braze fails and that new engagement slot comes off, it won't make things worse than they currently are.

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    I went out and checked and the top gib was already loose, it looks to be intact at least. I've tried tapping on the operator side but I am afraid to wrench too hard on the handwheel. I added more oil and went back in for the night.

    I went through some of the boxes with accessories, photo'ed a few:


    Reminds me of some kind of collet holder


    Looks like an adjustable boring head.




    Frankensteins milling attachment

    Horizontal milling arbors and support, there is a 4th arbor off photo.





    Also some collets and more holders in a smaller box, and lots of very dirty stuff that doesn't look very useful, lots of homemade strange stuff.

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    Would snugging the top gib tend to loosen the bottom one? Might be worth a try, but don't force it.

    Also, loosen the backing plates at the top of the horizontal table. Just undo the hex head screws by one or two turns each. Do not remove them entirely or bad things may happen. This will also help relieve pressure on the horizontal table. These backing plates are items 4 and 5 in the photo below, counting from the top.

    Good idea to sleep on it. When I am stuck like this I suggest tidying the shop, or remove some of the filthy control handles and clean/polish them up. Give yourself some time to figure out a solution.

    Here's what the gibs and backing plates look like. The bottom two in each of these photographs are the two X gibs (both sides).



    Last edited by ballen; 11-10-2018 at 12:44 AM.

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    Off topic, but here's what the X and Z backing plates look like after some TLC. A quick and easy way to improve the machine geometry.


  17. Likes DennisCA, thanvg liked this post
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    They look very much nicer now. Do you need a surface plate to do that or did you just do a flaking pass? A surface plate is another thing I feel I am going to need...

    Today I took off the angle table and started to clean it up, I also tried tapping some more but it does not budge. I dismantled the table into it's components for cleaning and so I could take it apart without needing a crane.



    Looks like they machined a lot of aluminium.


    Table upside down, the table saw base in the photo is also a german machine, Rapid PK-100.



    Rest of the table comes off one component at a time






    I feel like I need to buy a bath tub and fill it with kerosene.


    I think I will put all the smaller parts in my ultrasonic cleaner.

    I am also aware it's surely not optimal to be doing this in a woodworking environment, fortunately I have not done any such work in a while and I have been cleaning the shop before so the dust has settled out of teh air. Until this machine is ready and put into it's final operating place I believe that's a halt for all woodworking activity.

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    Think I will buy a 10 liter container of this material, isoparaffin based, biologically degradable, can also be run in the ultrasonic cleaner:

    https://www.biltema.fi/sv-fi/bil---m...att-2000041533

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    Dennis - Just sent you a PM!

    I have English manuals


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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Off topic, but here's what the X and Z backing plates look like after some TLC. A quick and easy way to improve the machine geometry.
    Sorry Bruce, but what's 'TLC'? I can't get my head around this...

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanvg View Post
    What's 'TLC'?
    Google for TLAs ("Three Letter Acroynms"). TLC = "Tender Loving Care".

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    I have continued with the removal of the hand wheel so I can reach in and tap on the gib better. I personally think the only way it will move is through a good shock and I can't give it that from where I am now, also more risk of damaging the gib or other part trying to tap on it at an angle.



    I am referring to ballens thread as I progress, it seems the handwheels on his and my machine seem to be different in design. He shows a clutch like design that I assume engages the handwheel when you press on it. On this machine the handwheel is always engaged via a key in the shaft, the handle itself is a separate part that is locked to the handwheel by pressing on it.

    This part here has had a tapered pin through it that I have punched out, it has sinced moved and does not line up anymore with the holes, but it seems really stuck on there. It even looks as if there are threads where it sits.

    Maybe it just needs to be pulled off too, but I can't get at it with a bearing puller, perhaps I need to try the 4 jaw trick.

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