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  1. #921
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    I used to use Koolmist but have found it rusts my tables and vises unless thoroughly cleaned and dried after every use (including pulling the vises). Kind of a pain the way I use my mills.

    I now use Masterchem OM oil based coolant. With carbide, I cut dry most of the time to keep from smoking the oil. I have a pretty powerful exhaust fan over the mill for when it does happen.

    Only thing really annoying about the oil based coolant for me is on long running jobs with lots of setups or part changes I end up pretty oily myself. I lose a fair bit of oil in the chips too.

    Teryk

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

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  3. #922
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    I decided to take a closer look at the gear shifting mechanism. I was curious... And I have been able to find absolutely ZERO on it online and I am usually pretty good at digging stuff up. So here are some images that hopefully shows how it works and removes some of the mysteri, it was only a light disassembly, I did not want to start banging on the tapered pin on the center pivot in order to get it out.





    As you can see, there are milled tracks that control how the gear shifting levers move








    There are two tracks and they are all milled into one very large gear. The system is a lot simpler than I thought it would be, really there doesn't seem to be anything you can even do to make it go out of time as the tracks are all milled on one part and locked to each other. If there had been two wheels instead that rotated against each other, then it would be possible to affect the timing. This is all a lot more simple than I thought, but a lot more robust.

    Probably a very complicated part to make however....

    I hosed out the innards with WD40 (got black stuff and the same aluminum metal particles coming out of it, they seem to have infiltrated every nook and cranny of this machine) and cleaned it up.


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  5. #923
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    Well actually there is a timing relationship.....
    you need the gears in the transmission to be fully engaged (max lever movement at that cam location) when the small hand crank has its locating spring pin down at 6:00....

    This has to do with where the small gear that is connected to the small hand crank is timed to the large gear that is part of the cam plate...
    If you remove that inner "cream" colored (used to be white i believe) plate the small gear can fall out, and you will need to re-time its position to the large gear...Get it wrong and the gears will not be fully engaged
    when the small hand crank pin is engaged....One tooth off and things will not work correctly.
    Believe that there is a timing hole (lower center of the above photo) that is an aide is setting this relationship.
    Cheers Ross

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  7. #924
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    Well an update on the shaft. As it turned out I never sent the shaft and accompanying components. I was just too scared to send it away in case it got lost, especially after I found out the spare parts would cost. So I kept looking into repairing the shaft myself or having a local firm do it, so I could go there in person.

    I was first asking local shops if they were capable of spray welding and I had several leads but it petered out, one shop offered to mig weld it and turn it down for 300 euros, but I think MIG welding might damage the hardening on the rest of the shaft. In that case maybe I should have tried TIG welding which I can do myself, very very slowly and letting it cool down before continuing.

    I had this plan drawn up in CAD, which is what Ross also suggested, make a two part shaft:



    Still in the end I decided to try and get away the the absolute minimum repair, I chucked up the shaft in the lathe and I turned away the broken thread. I also took a very shallow cut on the shaft and it mics consistently to 26.98mm except where there are circular gouges.



    I have also bought a 27mm reamer and reamed the gears and ater these operations I have a nice slip fit on the shaft. Next I drilled and threaded the shaft for a left hand thread and I made a new oversize part that I fitted with loctite. I wasn't able to get my hands on 272 but I hope 2701 is good enough here, this part will not really be under any strain.





    Now I just need to turn the new features on this piece. Then my next step is to enlarge the slot to 6mm, and make it 2mm deeper (to keep overall height constant so the bearing can slip over). This will clean up the slot in the shaft,

    I will also broach the gear key slots to 6mm as well, this will also fix some damage I discovered that I did to one side of the slots. And it will make the whole setup stronger.

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  9. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    ...


    Still in the end I decided to try and get away the the absolute minimum repair, ....
    There you go! Machine tools to fix machine tools Nice progress on fixing your machine by yourself, though I was dying to see what Ross would build for you....

    BR,
    Thanos

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  11. #926
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    I've completed what shaft repairs I can do myself. I hope maybe I can get the 6mm broach and bushing this weekend yet, if so I can visit my friend with a hydraulic press and broach the gears.



    I also had to make a new nut, pictured next to the shaft. Reason for this was I made the thread on the shaft left hand, apparently it was a right hand thread. For some reason I thought it was LH and not RH. I decided to make a new nut instead of removing the thread when I had gotten it firmly on and machined. I do not think it matters much here which direction it goes. I will loctite it to be sure.

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  13. #927
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    With the shaft out of the way for now I decided to look at the motor and the housing. The bearings are not in good shape from what it sounds like, the grease is probably all old and useless so it's like running them dry. So the motor has to come out so I can replace those bearings too.





    It's an AEG.



    Taking a photo to note the phases before removing the wiring.



    This is what it looks like inside, and this is after I scraped out a good amount of oily, greasy metal that seems to have turned into something more than the sum of it's parts (but not in a good way).



    Wow, the motor actually has a color, looks like the original deckel grey-green. I really like that tone, I'm still miffed my own paint turned out too dark.





    Mostly cleaned up, I will take apart the motor later and check the bearings.


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  15. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    Wow, the motor actually has a color, looks like the original deckel grey-green. I really like that tone, I'm still miffed my own paint turned out too dark
    Hi Dennis - Don't know if it helps but Franz Singer tells me they use RAL7005 (Mouse Grey) as their stand grey machine colour.

    HTH

    John

  16. #929
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    Yes it might have been a better choice. It's weird I brought a part with me to the shop and checked with the guy against a RAL color matcher and it matched RAL 7010 which is a common deckel color too, but it still came out wrong. Bruce said earlier his color matchers used 7010 but added some white. But I am not gonna start painting the machine again so I just live with it.

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  18. #930
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    Took the motor apart further, bit unusual design from my perspective... Fans are pressed on from what I can tell, and placed behind the bearings. So I'd have to pull off the fans in order to get the rotor out... I haven't removed the front cap yet so maybe things are different there and that fan comes more easily off. I can see the fan inside there yes despite the cap being on. The motor is apparently open and not closed. I had assumed motors by then were mostly closed and no longer open. But I guess if it was I should have seen radiator fins on the outside.



    I might just stop disassembly at this stage and fit new bearings, I hope if I heat the bearings they will drop on without the need for a press. This has worked for me before.

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  20. #931
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    I removed the other cover and that held the key, the fan on that side was much smaller and could be removed backwards through the stator. Now the bearings are off and I am awating a couple of new bearings, someone from sweden was kind enough to gift me a pair of SKF 6206s, which I do appreciate as I just spent 100 euros on the other bearings for the gearbox too.




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  22. #932
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    I bought a 10 ton hydraulic press and today I tried to broach the gears but they broke the broach teeth instead... I had thought they were soft in the hub and only hardened in the teeth. I had to stop and back the broach out, this is a big no no but I couldn't ruin the broach anymore.



    I've received the shaft back and it has been milled to 6mm. The broach did start to cut a bigger but it's not a clean looking cut except at the edges. It seems the broach is ruined however, atleast the first 6 teeth of it. It was a chinese broach bought from arc euro trade so maybe that is the reason. I remember a file biting the material so I did not think it would be too hard to cut.

    Any tips on proceeding? Maybe I need to file it, or buy a higher quality broach, though I am really afraid of breaking that again. I don't think it's viable to try and anneal the hub.

    What the gear looks like:


    I tested it with a file and it's way harder than I remember, I remember the file biting earlier and also how I damaged one with a drill, but this mostly skips when I try now.

  23. #933
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    I'm not saying this is feasible but I recall watching Stephan Gotteswinter slotting things with a small carbide cutter in his mill. It was a smaller scale but he used many small passes and it worked. I don't know how hard his material was.

  24. #934
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    Are there any wire EDM shops nearby? I’d pay one of them to deal with it. Otherwise, can you change the key instead of the key slot?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  26. #935
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    I've asked a few places that do wire-edm if they'd be willing to take on the job. It does seem the best option.

  27. #936
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    Well the motor has been reassembled with the new bearings and put back in place:







    I've hooked it back up and it runs really nice and quiet now. Now I just need to reassemble the lower gear shaft and adjust the belt tension.

    I've fitted the upper gear shaft with the new and larger 6mm key. I had to hone it to size in order to get a good fit. I honed it until it was 2-3 hundreths of a mm undersize (around .001" to .0015") and that allowed me to push it in most of the way by hand, and I could still knock it out again easily with a punch.



    I needed to remove more material to reduce the height of the key sticking out, the depth of the slot was 4mm so there was 2 mm stickout. But I needed to still remove a few tenths (of a mm) in order to get the bearing seat to clear, in order that I can properly reassemble and perhaps sometime time, disassemble the shaft properly.

    Now only the gears still remain, fortunately there is a shop only 5 minutes away that does wire-EDM who is willing to take the job on, I am bringing them there tomorrow.

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  29. #937
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    There is light at the end of the tunnel, and fortunately its not an oncoming train!
    Glad you are getting this finished....You will be up and running in no time.
    Motor work looks great!
    Cheers Ross

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    Thanks Ross!

    I dropped off the gears last night at the workshop who agreed to the job.

    Pretty friendly place. The owner seemed impressed with me just for knowing what wire-EDM was, apparently most people who contacted them never asked specifically for an EDM job even if that was the best process for it.

    They even gave me a shop tour and demonstrated the EDM machines they in operation and explained how they worked and showed them as they where working on projects. Also showed me some demo stuff they made, some of it was some really small stuff with details I could barely see even with glasses, tiny L-shaped brackets for LED lights. Also test pieces like a cutout through a block of steel that was hearts on one side and clubs on the other, cut in a single piece and operation, like when you removed the piece it was hearts on one side and it morphed across the length until it was clubs.

    And some other stuff that looked like the only way to make it was to 3D print it. Pretty impressive what you can do with a wire.

    Anyway should be ready next week, and I got all the new bearings ready too, and new oil and the gear box is thoroughly cleaned out. All I am missing I realize is gasket paper, need to get it this weekend.

    P.S.
    Also ordered a One Shot pump oiler and a 1-3 manifold. Need to order some other small parts later too, and fittings to replace the current fittings. I just can't get the oil gun to stop leaking and it's driving me furious to have a pool of way oil under it.

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  32. #939
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    Dennis,

    It's nice to hear another Deckel getting close to running again.

    If it helps I put a one shot oiler on my Fp2 recently as well. I used 4mm push connect air fittings which are easily available in a swivel 90 with M8x1.0 straight thread. I used 4mm soft copper tubing so I could do the runs with a minimum of clamps and keep it neat. There is also enough room to sneak the tubing by the X trip lever to the operator side for the fitting by the XZ lever.

    Shawn.

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    I got the gears back today so I have begun the reassembly, I started with the lower shaft first and it's mostly back in place. But as some might recall, there was an oil seal behind the bearing (6305) and the rear cover plate.

    I have tried searching, but all I found was this:
    FP2 oil seal

    Well the seal does exist but on mine it was quite ruined as well, you can see it next to the bearing in this photo:


    Anyone know a part number for this? The OD based on the cover plate is 57mm and the shaft is 25mm at this location, depth of the "pocket" in the cover plate is 3mm so it might be a little thicker than that. But I don't find anything looking for a 25x57x4mm seal or similar dimensions.


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