Deckel FP2 Horizontal Spindle Assembly

Now that I finished mounting the DRO and linear scales, its time to service the spindles before I start using my mill. I looked but didn't find a thread on the horizontal spindle assembly. I disassembled the horizontal spindle to clean and re-grease it. I am glad I did as the grease on the lower bearing (next to the spindle taper) was pretty bad.


Here is the race for the lower bearing as disassembled:



But my question has to do with the proper way to reassemble the spindle. The order of components from the top (back of the machine) down (towards the taper) is:
1.) Washer with 2 screws which holds a thin lock washer that has a protrusion that fits into a pocket on the quill.
2.) Locknut with slots for a spanner wrench under which is a spring washer.
3.) Large locknut that is locked in position with the lock washer in #1 and had a threaded ID for the locknut in #2
4.) Ball thrust bearing with a bushing through its ID with a flange under the bearing that pushes on upper race of the lower thrust bearing #5.
5.) Lower ball thrust bearing.
6.) Top needle bearing (installed from the top of the spindle).
7.) Middle needle bearing which is the same size as #6.
8.) Bottom needle bearing (bigger than the other two).

Here is a picture of the top end parts (right to left).



What is the correct procedure when installing the two lock nuts (#2 & #3)? It appears that you use the screws to get a purchase to install the larger lock nut(#3) which is then secured in position with #1. The smaller locknut has a spring washer which pushes on the bushing that runs through the upper thrust bearing(#4) and acts upon the lower thrust bearing (#5).

Are the targets are the same as for the vertical spindle? Test the spindle assembled dry and have between .0004"-.0006" (10-15 Micron) radial play. And once the spindle is greased, adjust the locknuts to get .0002" (5 micron) axial play.

If my mag-base is on the spindle with the indicator tip inside the taper, what is the proper way to push/pull on the spindle to check radial play?

Thanks in advance for your help,
Nigel

Your approach sounds correct....Use a bit of very light oil on the rollers on first assembly to test the radial play.
Hand pressure only...no prying or levering...just push by hand in the direction of the test...I would use the OD of the spindle to test radial clearance...using the taper on the ID of the spindle
introduces a compound move...any axial movement while pushing to record radial play will give an incorrect reading owing to the taper.

Don't over grease the bearings, be sure everything is spotless. Work in a clean area with still air....Use the correct grease
Invest some time and make proper spanners for the adjusting nuts...The screws are there to lock the ring once you have made the adjustment for axial play...Be sure to test after tightening the screws.

Something like this:


The smaller nut (two slots) should be made tight...don't believe it is an adjustment.
Be sure to reassemble the needle roller cages in the same direction they were when disassembled...
There is no adjustment on your spindle fro radial clearance short of replacing the needle rollers with oversized assemblies....

Cheers Ross

Nigel, your project was one of those I had in mind when posting on another thread about the RobRenz video on this very subject. I urge you to take a look - there are excellent tips on cleanliness and de-burring, plus pointers on how to secure the lock rings without distortion. Also there is a fascinating look at pre-locating the bearing grease. It will surely be worth your time.

YouTube

Ross,

Thanks for your expert help. I am waiting for the Kimwipes (lint free cloth)I ordered to show up. Then, I will do the "dry" fit to test the axial play.

I did already make a custom spanner wrench.

Thanks,
Nigel

Dudley,
Thanks for your input. That video, like all of Robin's videos is very informative. The Deckel spindle is a different design than his Trak mill's spindle. The massaging of the grease into the bearings like Robin did is not really applicable on the Deckel needle and ball thrust bearings. Never the less, I did pick up some tips for cleanliness during assembly.

Thanks,
Nigel

I really appreciate all of the information people have put up about rebuilding the Deckel spindles on this forum. It has been a big help.

I just finished rebuilding the horizontal spindle. The bearings had .0003" radial play dry which is very good. After reassembling it I ran it through all of the speeds for 5min at each speed before going to the next higher speed. I had the quill extended so I could measure its temperature (with an IR gun). After running through the speeds and spending 10 minutes at 2,000 rpm the outside of the quill was only 14 °F warmer than ambient room temperature. This seemed good to me but, the quill was stiffer when retracting it all of the way (last 1 1/2"). I guess shows how tight the bore is to the quill.

While I was running the horizontal spindle through its speeds, I started disassembly of the vertical head. I have a couple of questions:
-I have read that you should use lithium grease on the bevel gears. Should I use lithium or Kluber grease on the bearings for the bevel gear that drives the spindle? When reassembling is there a target for axial play with this bearing or just what feels good?

- Is there a good way to clean the old oil from the two layers of felt that sit above the quill assembly? I haven't read about people replacing them.

I need to make two new pin wrenches and a spanner wrench to get everything apart. I am sure I will have a couple more questions before I am done.

Thanks,
Nigel

Glad to hear this worked out well.

Nigel Tudor said:

The quill was stiffer when retracting it all of the way (last 1 1/2"). I guess shows how tight the bore is to the quill.

Click to expand...

Yup, many of us here have seen exactly that. It is normal and makes sense. The quill and bore are matched to a few microns, probably around 0.0001".

If memory serves me correctly, the quill is 70mm diameter. A 14 F temperature rise is 8 Celsius, and the coefficient of thermal expansion for steel is about 10^-5/C. So the 8C temperature rise will cause the quill to expand in diameter by 70mm x 8/100000 = 5.6 microns = 0.0002".

To answer your other questions, I personally used Kluber grease on the bevel gears and bearings, but I think standard lithium grease would also be fine there.

The felts above the quill assembly can be replaced, Singer sells them.