Deckel FP2 how to free frozen horizontal quill? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    The serial number of my FP2 is 5415, which would put it mid-1967?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    The serial number of my FP2 is 5415, which would put it mid-1967?
    That's right. If I understand correctly, you have a 2202 machine, which has the motor hanging out the back (rather than hidden in the base) and 400mm X travel rather than 500. Also a built-in one-shot oiler on the door side and a feed and speed dials which have no hi/lo shifting levers?

    My machine is number 4242 from 1965, so a late-model 2200 machine with the motor in the base, 500mm X travel, and hi-lo shift levers over the spindle and feed speed dials.

    Please post some photos of your machine to confirm this, all we have seen so far is a shot of the horizontal head in post #6.

    Cheers, Bruce
    Last edited by ballen; 08-18-2019 at 02:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    That's right. If I understand correctly, you have a 2202 machine, which has the motor hanging out the back (rather than hidden in the base) and 400mm X travel rather than 500. Also a built-in one-shot oiler on the door side and a single combined feed and spindle speed dial rather than two?
    That's right, the X scale goes to 16 inches. I don't see a one-shot oiler though - except if you're talking about the nipple next to the sight glass on the door side.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Please post some photos of your machine to confirm this, all we have seen so far is a shot of the horizontal head in post #6.
    Ah, I've escaped moderation hell - I hadn't realized.

    Here are a couple of photos:
    img_20190817_183511.jpg
    img_20190817_183412.jpg
    img_20190817_183649.jpg
    img_20190817_183522.jpg
    img_20190817_183519.jpg

  4. #24
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    Thanks for the photos. I guess that the one-shot oilers were added later.

    Your machine is outfitted with the standard vertical head. Most of these machines were delivered with the "long-reach" or "adjustable" vertical head that can be shifted back and forth by about ten inches. The one you have is more rigid and precise but less versatile. It also has a slightly different Z offet than the long reach head, can't remember if it's higher or lower.

    Are you missing the settable stops on the Z-travel? I can see them for Y but not for Z.

    Machine looks very clean, but was repainted. The original color is the one inside the door and on the dividing head.

    Rotary table has been fly-cut on the surface, the original finish was a set of planed parallel ridges/valleys.

    Any idea what the aluminium strip is that's been added to the horizontal headstock above and to the right of the Y handwheel? Is that for holding a DRO scale?

    You'll want to replace the damaged X bellows. Easy to find either new or used on German Ebay, search for "Deckel FP2 X-Balg". Be sure to get the one for the 400mm X travel. Left and right are interchangable. They are a bit more than 100 Euros new:
    X - Balg FP2 2200-278 ( X 400 mm) fur Deckel Frasmaschine | eBay

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    I guess that the one-shot oilers were added later.
    I don't suppose you can point me to a photo of what the original one-shot oiler looks like? I like the idea of installing one (eventually).

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Are you missing the settable stops on the Z-travel? I can see them for Y but not for Z.
    No, they're present, it's just that the photo is at an awkward angle. I tried to turn the machine to get a better angle, but looks like I'll need a little more manpower to push it away from the wall .
    I've removed the Z bellows on this photo and the uppermost stop seems to be part of that bracket. You can just see the upper movable one on one of the photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Machine looks very clean, but was repainted.
    Yes, alas it's been repainted, though I knew that going in. Terrible paint job too.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Any idea what the aluminium strip is that's been added to the horizontal headstock above and to the right of the Y handwheel? Is that for holding a DRO scale?
    I hadn't realized that wasn't factory, but looking at it closer it's clear that it's an addition. This is a second scale, graduated by 0.1", quite well done with an inserted steel ruler on an aluminum adapter. Looks like it's glued on the casting and held by a T-nut on the front. I guess whoever did this couldn't bring himself to drilling the casting .

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    You'll want to replace the damaged X bellows.
    Thanks - I have the old bellows and they're good except they've let go on a couple of the clips and so were hanging out at the center. I can probably repair them, hopefully just a little bit of a glue-up. Good to know spares are available, however.

  6. #26
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    Started cleaning up this morning, found the "coolant" reservoir is full of nondescript oil. Probably a mix of cutting and way oil, for the most part.
    Guess I'll need to find a suitable container for the sundry oil that going to be purged from various reservoirs in the machine.

    I can't find the oil sight glass on the operator side - it wouldn't be mounted behind that dovetail contraption?

    The Z-axis wiper is totally gonsky and the Y-axis wiper blocks are looking a little sad. Looks like Franz Singer will supply a complete wiper set for but a small ransom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I can't find the oil sight glass on the operator side - it wouldn't be mounted behind that dovetail contraption?
    Nvm, I found it - on the back of the operator-side Z-axis guide block. I thought it'd be on the casting somewhere, but there's no room there.
    Looks like the oilways are clear, leastwise I could pump the sight glass full and see oil oozing up on the operator side. That's a relief, hopefully mine was never greased up.

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    Hey there,

    Congrats on the new machine, you'll love it.

    Regarding the heads. Long reach end of spindle sits around 60 mm higher than yhe standard, which is welcome always. However, this means that when you are face milling you have to extend the quill in order not to have the headstock hitting your work.... extra rigidity lost here....
    However, single most important feature of the long reach, imho, is that, most of the times, the vertical does not interfere with the horizontal. You don't even need to rotate the vertical and slide it back to work horizontally, you just remove tooling, cover the spindle, and just use the horizontal. This is, to me, amazingly satisfying (because it's useful of course).
    But, on the other hand, standard head is so much more beautiful than the long reach which makes the machine look just like the monster in 'Allien'

    Bruce, I've only seen two 380 rotabs in real life and could not locate any in mr Singer's site (low bandwidth where I am now). Are yoy sure about them being planned-finished?

    Br,
    Thanos

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I don't suppose you can point me to a photo of what the original one-shot oiler looks like? I like the idea of installing one (eventually).
    Here's how I added one to my FP2: FP2 vertical table and support tear-down and reassembly

    Thanos, I thought that I had seen some "new old stock" 380mm Deckel rotary tables, and they were planed on top. But I can't find any photos, and am thinking that my memory is wrong. I see that Uncle Franz does plane the smaller Deckel rotary tables like this one: Rundtisch D 230 mm fur Deckel G1L und GK21 | eBay

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    Hey Bruce,

    Like I said, not much real life experience, I am sure you've seen more in real life. But a quick statistical analysis ( ) based on images on google does not support the 'planned finish' case.
    In any case, sorry for high jacking this thread as well.... I do enjoy discussing such trivialities I admit....
    (If I ever manage to feel so sure about my mill's tramming, I'll fly cut mine as well, I find the finish you showed on that early thread Bruce to be very attractive).

    Br,
    Thanos

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    Think the factory finish on the top surface of the rotary table was a "Blanchard style" ground finish.
    This leaves a finish with semi circular lines form the grinding stone...might be mistaken for a fly cut surface....
    Not seen an original table with a planned surface, but like all things Deckel might have to do with the age of the table...
    I have two in the shop now ,both originally had the ground surface (one has now been scraped overall) also, one does not have the sight glass for the oil level in the base....so there are differences.



    Other thing about the long reach head is its shear weight......My own personal opinion is that it is heavy for the surface area or the "Y" slide.....
    Making the "feel" of the "Y" heavy and less sensitive....Also likely to incur higher wear on that slide.....

    Nice to have the extra reach, but it comes with other costs.

    Cheers Ross

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    The finish on the rotary table is a Blanchard ground finish (or the German equivalent). I have seen several of the 380mm rotary tables with this finish and assumed it was factory. Here is a rotary table from Franz Singer with that finish:Rundtisch gebrauchten D 380 mm fur Deckel Frasmaschine | eBay

    The rotary table that I have has this finish also.

    Regards,
    Nigel

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    The Z-axis wiper is totally gonsky and the Y-axis wiper blocks are looking a little sad. Looks like Franz Singer will supply a complete wiper set for but a small ransom.
    It's a good idea to replace these wipers, even though they are pricey. Maybe someone here has a spare set they can sell you for less.

    In addition to these wipers, and the Z bellows, to protect both Y and Z on my machine I use this "bib" almost all of the time. It's often missing.

    Fuhrungsschutz 2200-570 Y- Achse fur Deckel FP2 Frasmaschine | eBay

    I got a used one for a few Euros, but it's easy enough to build. You turn two "buttons" that are a loose fit in the holes bored at the ends of the headstock T-slots (see photo above). Then bend up a piece of heavy steel wire into the correct shape, and sew a leather or heavy cloth "bib" onto it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    It's a good idea to replace these wipers, even though they are pricey. Maybe someone here has a spare set they can sell you for less.
    Yeah, I need to make up a shopping list of things I need from Franz Singer. This is my first manual mill and will be with me for decades to come (knock on wood), so I'll do the needful. I want to get'er going and see what's what before I go crazy on buying things.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    ... I use this "bib" almost all of the time. It's often missing.
    Yup, it's missing.
    Another thing that's missing is the protective cover for the dovetails on top of the ram. With the standard head, I can't leave it in place when I use the horizontal spindle, so that'd be nice to have.

  18. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    Another thing that's missing is the protective cover for the dovetails on top of the ram. With the standard head, I can't leave it in place when I use the horizontal spindle, so that'd be nice to have.
    Here's one on German Ebay for 30 Euros:

    Deckel FP 2 Abdeckung | eBay

    I think the weight is under 2kg so DHL shipping to the USA adds another 20 Euros.


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