Deckel FP2 how to free frozen horizontal quill? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    The first 7 posts of this thread detail the process of removing the vertical table. It probably just takes an hour IF all of the bolts are free and you have the correct wrenches and tools. If not, it might take quite a bit longer. I'd estimate the weight of the vertical table around 80kg. A friend and I had no trouble lifting it and moving it around.

    FP2 vertical table and support tear-down and reassembly
    Last edited by ballen; 08-24-2019 at 10:01 AM.

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  3. #42
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    I emptied and cleaned the coolant sump today, glad that's done. About 2 gallons of yuck - the pickup was particularly gunked up, took multiple rounds of scrubbing and soaking before I saw metal.

    In other news, the armored conduit from the mill to the electrical box is totally shot and I'd ideally like to replace it with same. Looks like it's 37mm nominal OD - makes sense that this'd all be metric. It's going to be a PITA to source here in Canada, and in Quebec in particular it seems access to electrical and industrial supplies is restricted to "pros" only. I can't even get a stupid DIN rail in any of the renovation stores around :/.
    Y'all have any ready sources for this kind of thing?

    This mill is wired for 220 (208) 3 phase, and as I don't have three phase into the house I'm going to add a VFD. I looked at the wiring diagram and it doesn't look like this'll be too hard. I guess I'll be reusing the main contactor for an emergency cutoff, and re-routing the on/off switches to the VFD.
    I picked up a 3HP WEG VFD, I figure if I ever burn it up, that's signs of progress in my machining .

    Edit: I forgot to mention that the oil plugs for the two gearboxes both have stickers saying "Vactra #2" next to them. I guess this mill has been running way oil through the gearboxes - is there any possible harm in this? The oilers on the table have a "Vactra #4" sticker on them, which DOES make sense to me.
    Last edited by sigurasg; 08-25-2019 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Forgot to mention...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    Edit: I forgot to mention that the oil plugs for the two gearboxes both have stickers saying "Vactra #2" next to them. I guess this mill has been running way oil through the gearboxes - is there any possible harm in this? The oilers on the table have a "Vactra #4" sticker on them, which DOES make sense to me.
    The oil coming out of the main gearbox was pretty awful, had black particulate matter in it and some chips. I guess chips can ingress through the horizontal spindle gearing if the protective cover isn't on there? I hadn't realized that there are two drain plugs for the main gearbox, I guess there are two compartments in there to empty?

    It looks like the oil from the main gearbox will also splash around the ram, and serve to oil the Y-axis ways. so presumably will be slowly depleted over time?

    The feedbox oil was in great shape, however.

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    The conduits were missing on my mill. The threads on the main conduit into the junction box on the back of the mill are PG-29. I got a PG29 to 1.25" npt adaptor and used 1.25" liquid tight conduit with 1.25" fittings. On the electrical box side I used an 1.25" npt to liquid tight elbow as the Deckel elbow was missing. The fittings to and from the motor are PG16 threads which I got an adaptor to convert it to 1/2"npt. You can probably find an electrical supplier online to buy the stuff from.

    208 volt is considered a different power than standard 230 volt three phase. You might consider getting a transformer to step your power down.

    Did you buy your Deckel from a dealer in New Jersey? It looks similar to one I remember seeing.
    Regards,
    Nigel

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    The oil coming out of the main gearbox was pretty awful, had black particulate matter in it and some chips. I guess chips can ingress through the horizontal spindle gearing if the protective cover isn't on there? I hadn't realized that there are two drain plugs for the main gearbox, I guess there are two compartments in there to empty?

    It looks like the oil from the main gearbox will also splash around the ram, and serve to oil the Y-axis ways. so presumably will be slowly depleted over time?

    The feedbox oil was in great shape, however.
    The oil that came out of my gearbox smelled rank, truly awful smell. I too found aluminum particulates in the oil, the previous owner machined a lot of aluminum as I have found it in every nook and cranny of this machine. It does make it's way down into the gear box it seems, very good idea to get one of those bibs to help prevent it.

    P.S. Way oil in the gear box sounds bad to me. I bought Tellus S2 68 hydraulic oil for replacement oil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    It looks like the oil from the main gearbox will also splash around the ram, and serve to oil the Y-axis ways.
    This might be why they used bedway oil in the main (speeds) gearbox, because that oil also lubricates the Y-axis ways. The next time that I change this oil I plan to investigate using the same stuff that I use in my cylindrical grinder, which is a combined hydraulic and bedway oil, Shell Tonna S3 M 68. This claims to have "high levels of antiwear protection for slideways, gears, bearings, and hydraulic components". I believe that this is very similar or identical to Mobil Vactra 2, so I can understand the logic of using it here.

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  10. #47
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    Bed way oil might not be a good choice for getting to close tolerance bushings and anti friction bearings in the gearbox....
    Lots depends on how the box feeds the oil to the various parts....
    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tudor View Post
    Did you buy your Deckel from a dealer in New Jersey? It looks similar to one I remember seeing.
    Yup, apparently it came out of an IBM lab that's shutting down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    The first 7 posts of this thread detail the process of removing the vertical table. It probably just takes an hour IF all of the bolts are free and you have the correct wrenches and tools. If not, it might take quite a bit longer. I'd estimate the weight of the vertical table around 80kg. A friend and I had no trouble lifting it and moving it around.

    FP2 vertical table and support tear-down and reassembly
    I like the idea of taking the lead screw and nut out before I slide the table off. That way there's less chance for me to bungle things and bend the screw.
    If I'm understanding the process correctly, the screw and nut come out on the door side, and then the table slides off on the operator's side?

    The one tool I don't own is a pin wrench for that retaining ring, though I suppose I can cobble something up. The holes in the ring look pretty good, so maybe this'll be a cinch .

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I like the idea of taking the lead screw and nut out before I slide the table off. That way there's less chance for me to bungle things and bend the screw.
    If I'm understanding the process correctly, the screw and nut come out on the door side, and then the table slides off on the operator's side?

    The one tool I don't own is a pin wrench for that retaining ring, though I suppose I can cobble something up. The holes in the ring look pretty good, so maybe this'll be a cinch .
    I think you can unscrew the screw and just leave the nut in place!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanvg View Post
    I think you can unscrew the screw and just leave the nut in place!
    Duh, thanks! Of course the screw will come out by itself

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    Duh, thanks! Of course the screw will come out by itself
    Well actually, the lead screw hangs up before it gets out on the door side. Taking a look at the pictures from Bruce's thread, I see that the screw won't come out through the nut. To screw out through the nut on door side side, it'd have to neck down to the thread minor diameter where the threads end. Instead it seems to continue at the thread major diameter with a long keyslot for the power drive.
    It looks like it would come out the operators side, however.
    Guess I'm taking that end cover off also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    It looks like it would come out the operators side, however.
    On second thought, I don't think that'll work either, as it'll hang up when the key gets to the threads. Guess I'll be buying or making a pin wrench after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    Guess I'll be buying or making a pin wrench after all.
    And one improvised pin spanner later, the screw and nut are out. The hole pattern on the retaining ring is 4 * 4mm holes on a 43mm diameter. I ended up turning some scrap aluminum for the spanner, drilling it cross-wise to get a handle on it, then turning down some 1/4" O2 I had handy for pins. The retaining ring was in there pretty good.

    Also note that if you happen to have removed the handwheels, you can still drive out the nut using the inching wheel and the power feed. Ask me how I know .

    I'll see about getting some pictures later, but the screw and nut look to be in better general shape than I am - and we're about the same age. ISTR there was about 10 thou backlash on the handwheel before I started messing with things, I can live with that, I think.
    Last edited by sigurasg; 09-01-2019 at 02:45 PM. Reason: holes, not pins

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I'll see about getting some pictures later
    There's the freed X-axis leadscrew and the lower gib. There's clearly wear on the gib on both ends, but particularly on the left (door) end. Doesn't look to bad to my eye, though?
    img_20190901_173132.jpg

    Closer look at the nut - everything was awash in oil, thankfully no grease in evidence.
    img_20190901_173137.jpg

    Here's the improvised pin spanner, the shaft is a bit of 3/8" rod that was banging around in the workshop. It's most recent role in life was as a drill extender.
    img_20190901_173158.jpg

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    And the table is off!

    The upper gib:
    img_20190901_191912.jpg

    The table on the floor - that thing is a two person lift for sure:
    img_20190901_191939.jpg

    And a couple of pics of the - X-axis slideways:
    img_20190901_191955.jpg
    img_20190901_191949.jpg

    Whatch'all think - good enough for hobby work?

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    Congratulations on getting it off without any drama. Building a proper pin wrench instead of improvising was smart.

    The gibs and other sliding surfaces look very good, much better than most Deckel FP2s that people show here in the forums. It looks like the previous owners were responsible about lubricating it properly, which might explain why.

    You say that the leadscrew/nut have 0.010" = 0.25mm of backlash. That's similar to mine which had about 0.30mm. I was able to eliminate most of that by replacing the nut with a new one from Franz Singer, which got the backlash down below 0.1mm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    ...
    The gibs and other sliding surfaces look very good, much better than most Deckel FP2s that people show here in the forums. It looks like the previous owners were responsible about lubricating it properly, which might explain why.

    ....
    Much better than most for sure! Either a low mileage machine or a rebuilt one! Well done on this find!

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    Now that I have the table off, I somehow expected the oil level of at least one of the sight glasses on the saddle to start dropping. Presumably I've opened the X-axis oil ways to free air.
    However, to my surprise, they seem to be staying where I filled them. Should I be worried or is this working as intended?

    I guess the sight glass on the operator's side is the one that supplies the Z-axis?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    However, to my surprise, they seem to be staying where I filled them. Should I be worried or is this working as intended?
    Working as intended.

    I guess the sight glass on the operator's side is the one that supplies the Z-axis?
    It supplies the Z axis on the operator side, which is the most important Z side because that's where the Z gib is that controls the left/right motion. If you want to do more inspecting/cleaning you can remove the Z axis backing plates, inspect the scraping and if needed blow out the oil passages. BUT ONLY REMOVE ONE AT A TIME AND THEN REPLACE IT BEORE MOVING TO THE OTHER SIDE. Otherwise the support might just fall over, destroying the Z axis screw and power drive shaft!

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