Deckel FP2 how to free frozen horizontal quill? - Page 4
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 86
  1. #61
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Working as intended.
    I’ve been trying to figure this out from pics on the threads here, but how is the oil supposed to get to the X slideways? Obviously this was working on my mill, as everything was slick on disassembly, but I still don’t get it.
    I tried pumping both oilers, but aside from some dribbles out the lead nut and some spitting on the sight glass overflow hole, I got nothing.
    Is there wicking in there somewhere or some such?



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    GERMANY
    Posts
    2,608
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1613
    Likes (Received)
    905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I’ve been trying to figure this out from pics on the threads here, but how is the oil supposed to get to the X slideways?
    If you look in the manual, one of the drawings there actually shows how oil is distributed.

    Here is another drawing for an FP1, but the basic idea is the same: FP1 Notes on cleaning and disassembly

    On your FP2, there are two oil nipples on the door side of the support.

    One of these feeds a long transverse passage which in turn lubricates X. When the oil has filled that passage it should appear in the sight glass at the top of the support on the operator side.

    The other oil nipple (with the sight glass on the door side) feeds the X axis lead screw and nut. When you pump oil into that nipple it should immediately appear in the sight glass on the door side. That sight glass should have a small hole or slot to let out air. If that hole is missing or blocked then you might have trouble feeding oil in, so check that.

  3. Likes sigurasg liked this post
  4. #63
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    If you look in the manual, one of the drawings there actually shows how oil is distributed.
    Ah, thanks, I found the drawing but it's pretty low on detail .

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    One of these feeds a long transverse passage which in turn lubricates X. When the oil has filled that passage it should appear in the sight glass at the top of the support on the operator side.
    I found this thread which has a picture of the cross-hole that feeds down to the lower part of the slideways - though it appears to cross the bushing covering the feed screw.
    I guess I'll try and blow through the hole on the lower part, see whether it's blocked. Can't be any harm in checking?

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    GERMANY
    Posts
    2,608
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1613
    Likes (Received)
    905

    Default

    Seeing if you can blow air through the passages is not so reliable, because there are "felts" in some passages to slow the flow of oil. These make it appear that the passages are blocked, if you are testing these by blowing air through.

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Country
    GREECE
    Posts
    493
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    132
    Likes (Received)
    114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Seeing if you can blow air through the passages is not so reliable, because there are "felts" in some passages to slow the flow of oil. These make it appear that the passages are blocked, if you are testing these by blowing air through.
    totally off topic....
    I know of 'a guy' who did something similar , checked the oil passages on a HLV-H with compressed air, they didn't let it pass because there are some valves there, so he thought they were blocked. At least he messed only one up.....just another headache towards getting that machine to run....

  7. #66
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Ok, finally got the mill moved out of the garage into the workshop. Had to get it over a 4" threshold and down a hallway, hence the table needed to come off and all of that. Using a pallet truck, a couple of ramps constructed from the crate it shipped in, a large crowbar and ratchet straps for leverage and safety, we got it done.

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I guess I'll try and blow through the hole on the lower part, see whether it's blocked. Can't be any harm in checking?
    I've verified that the oil ways are all good, didn't take any blowing to do it either.
    The simple way to do this with the table off is to simply pump oil into the oilers until you see it weeping out everywhere it should.
    The lower part seems to take the oil that's gone across the X-way bushing and I think there might be a bit of a reservoir down there. This was the last to come through, and only after I'd turned the bushing a fair number of turns. Whether that helped or not, oil is getting around this old beauty.

    I still need to change the oil on the Z screw. I just took a good look at the screw, and I believe this is way overdue. Hosed it down with WD40 for starters, cleaned it and then gave it a coating of way oil. This have to do until I have the mill off the pallet truck, table on, and placed where it's to live from here on.

  8. #67
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    If this were my machine and having no real service or use history, i would seriously ponder cleaning and repacking (term loosely used here) both spindles...Lots of info here on this
    and you need to evaluate your ability to do this level of work.....

    Proper measuring tools, correct grease along with correct fitting spanners are an absolute necessity to a successful job.
    If you decide to go forward on the spindles...start with the horizontal....leave the vertical intact..that way you will have a machine to make the needed spanners etc....
    I'm about to make an order for new way wipers from Franz Singer, and I noticed that they offer some grease in reasonable sized packaging. I figured if it's suitable, I might as well buy some to use the shipping.
    Now, my manual calls for ISOFLEX SUPER TEL, but Franz Singer offers ISOFLEX NBU15 and ISOFLEX LDS18. Are either of those the right thing(TM) or even at all suitable for the horizontal/vertical spindles?

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Benicia California USA
    Posts
    7,994
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1778
    Likes (Received)
    2351

    Default

    Think the NBU15 and LDS18 are a bit heavier in viscosity over the "Super Tel"...That is likely a good thing as it will compensate for the small wear that has undoubtedly occured
    on the rolling elements of your spindles...
    Tell Singer what machine you have (serial number) and ask for his recommendation as to grease for your spindles.

    Cheers Ross

  10. Likes sigurasg liked this post
  11. #69
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Think the NBU15 and LDS18 are a bit heavier in viscosity over the "Super Tel"...That is likely a good thing as it will compensate for the small wear that has undoubtedly occured
    on the rolling elements of your spindles...
    Tell Singer what machine you have (serial number) and ask for his recommendation as to grease for your spindles.
    Thanks - I'm seeing a couple of posts where the vertical spindles are re-greased with NBU-15, and if it's good enough for them... Will inquire @Franz Singer also.

  12. #70
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    GERMANY
    Posts
    2,608
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1613
    Likes (Received)
    905

    Default

    I think NBU15 is what Singer uses for spindle bearings.

  13. #71
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    I think NBU15 is what Singer uses for spindle bearings.
    Thanks - I also found this reconstructed picture instruction manual. When (if) I attempt re-greasing my spindle, that'll be my guide.

    PS: Did I mention how awesome this forum is for a n00b-with-10-thumbs .

  14. Likes ballen liked this post
  15. #72
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    P.S. Way oil in the gear box sounds bad to me. I bought Tellus S2 68 hydraulic oil for replacement oil.
    I figure this is why the horizontal quill froze, it's the "stickifier" in the way oil getting sticky.

  16. #73
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    For giggles I put an indicator on the horizontal spindle taper this morning. It's only a half-thousand test indicator, but I see no needle movement whatsoever. By comparison my Chinesium lathe spindle gave me a slight bit of movement new, maybe 2 tenths or so. Not bad for a 50-plus year old machine .

    I'm looking at the electrical box now to try and figure out where I drop the VFD in.
    There's so much stuff between the line and the motor.
    First the previous owner had mounted a gargantuan isolation switch on the outside of the box.
    Then there's the master switch on the front of the box. Next there's C1, the contactor, followed by what looks like an adjustable thermal and/or magnetic breaker.
    Lastly there's a/the spindle on/off switch before finally the motor hooks up.
    I figure I need to plug in the VFD before C1, that way the downstream protection and switching all stays in-line.

    Interestingly L1/L2 are looped over to a separate pair of terminals which go over to a pair of European-style mains sockets. One of those sockets has L1/L2 220V on it, while the other one has had one of the phases replaced by the neutral.
    So identical side-by-side mains sockets, one 110V, the other one 220V.
    What could possibly go wrong!

  17. #74
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tudor View Post
    208 volt is considered a different power than standard 230 volt three phase. You might consider getting a transformer to step your power down.
    This nagged at me a bit, but I don't think it's a problem. The nameplate on the motor tags it as 220/380, so I'm pretty sure they just ran it a little lean. I don't think it'll harm a 3 phase motor to run it under voltage so long as it gets to speed, though it'll suffer in power.
    The only other component in the electrical cabinet that's sensitive to the input voltage is the transformer. The transformer in mine is wired up to a tap on the primary winding. From measuring the resistance of the windings on either side of the tap, I figure it might be wound for 208 (on the tap) or 220 (end-to-end).

    I'm kind of starting to wonder if I should just replace the electrical cabinet though. I don't see a good way to fit the VFD and braking resistor in it, and most of the stuff in the cabinet is redundant to my needs...

  18. #75
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    I ordered new way wipers and some spindle grease from Franz Singer.
    Regarding the grease they tell me “Don't worry, the spindle bearing grease NBU15 is only the successor of the ISOFLEX SUPER TEL grease. So the grease "NBU15" is right.”



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  19. Likes ballen liked this post
  20. #76
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I ordered new way wipers and some spindle grease from Franz Singer.
    I got my stuff from Franz Singer. The way wipers include the elaborate Z-axis wiper, the Y-axis blocks and a felt piece. Where does the felt piece go?

  21. #77
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    GERMANY
    Posts
    2,608
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1613
    Likes (Received)
    905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I'm kind of starting to wonder if I should just replace the electrical cabinet though. I don't see a good way to fit the VFD and braking resistor in it, and most of the stuff in the cabinet is redundant to my needs...
    One of these days (more likely, one of these years) I am going to ditch the electrical cabinet from my FP2 and replace it with two VFDs. One will be for the regular drive motor built into the base, and the other will be for the high-speed head motor. These will be in a box mounted to the back of the mill along with electrical outlets for the lamp and the DRO, and a 6V power supply providing current and interlock for the centering scope.

    This is to (1) save some floor space (2) be able to vary the speed of the mill and get soft start/stop (3) be able to reverse the drive motor to back out taps when power tapping.

  22. Likes sigurasg, DennisCA liked this post
  23. #78
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    One of these days (more likely, one of these years) I am going to ditch the electrical cabinet from my FP2 and replace it with two VFDs. One will be for the regular drive motor built into the base, and the other will be for the high-speed head motor. These will be in a box mounted to the back of the mill along with electrical outlets for the lamp and the DRO, and a 6V power supply providing current and interlock for the centering scope.
    I can't get any highfalutin' 3 phase 'lectric to my humble abode for inside a large king's random. So, I can either change the motor for a single-phase abomination, or else install a VFD. A VFD is saner for the reasons you list, and probably significantly less expensive than replacing the motor.

    I've decided to bite the bullet and replace the original cabinet, though I think I'll wall-mount the replacement.
    So far I've put together nearly all the components, everything except for a reversing switch and a braking resistor. I'll post some pictures once it's all together - I'm excited to see the old girl run and make some chips.

  24. Likes ballen liked this post
  25. #79
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    So far I've put together nearly all the components, everything except for a reversing switch and a braking resistor.
    I got'er running with a temporary gitup, everything just mounted on the panel out of the box. I think I'd like to use the mill to drill and bore the holes in the box for the various orifices and buttons, so there's a little bit of catch-22 going on.
    Initially I ran the motor in reverse and hit the physical end limit on the Y axis, which sheared the pin in the feed box. Scared the living bejesus out of me, I thought I'd wrecked'er. Thankfully the mill came with a bunch of spare shear pins for the feed box, so it wasn't too bad to get back to running.

    So, dear reader of the future, if you're bringing up one of these old beauties, make sure you're running the motor forward before you engage any feeds! There's an arrow on the inching wheel indicating which way it wants to run.

    The pin that came out was much longer than the one that went in. I don't think it matters, as the power transfer is all on one side of the mechanism, the pin doesn't need to go all the way through.

    All the speeds and feeds seem to be fine and the horizontal spindle gear is getting lubed. It doesn't look like a whole lot of oil is splashing up to the Y-way galleys at the lower speeds, however. I filled the galleys when I changed the oil, but I thought they were supposed to self-replenish when the mill is running?

    Now I need to clean, repair and re-fit the X and Z bellows, and then I'm in business for realz.

  26. Likes ballen liked this post
  27. #80
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    14
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    Where does the felt piece go?
    The felt piece goes under the "Y" axis ram (horizontal arbor housing)as a wiper in front of the long drive gear in the base. If you remove the two screws holding the plate between the y-axis dovetails in the front you can retract the y axis till the lead screw comes loose and you can slide the ram back to access the felt wiper. There is also a felt piece in the back, but I think they just give you one as only the front gets dirty.

    Glad to hear you got the mill running.

    Regards,
    Nigel

  28. Likes sigurasg liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •