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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I just got the braking resistor and I wasted no time in hooking it up and testing it. I think I might be coming to a realization that it's perhaps not worth much to brake a mill with a VFD.
    Now, the VFD ramps down the output frequency at a fixed rate until it gets to a cutoff frequency. The cutoff frequency is 3Hz by default, I believe, and after that it can additionally "DC brake" for a set time - which I'm weary of.

    If there's a lot of angular momentum in the system, like the spindle is running at 2K RPM, the motor doesn't have the torque to brake it very quickly. The end result of e.g. a 1 second ramp-down is that the spindle slows down maybe half way then coasts from there. If I set a longer ramp-down time, the spindle will slow down further (100RPM for 3Hz at the 2000RPM setting).

    If, however, the spindle is moving quite slowly (as would be the case when power tapping) the ramp-down probably takes longer than coasting to a stop would.

    My Chinesium lathe has a foot brake which I use quite a lot. It's mostly a convenience to slow the spindle down quickly before taking a measurement or to change the tool. It's also, however, a safety mechanism when e.g. I get a rats nest tangle around the chuck, I can just stomp on the brake and bring the mess to a very quick stop.

    Anyhow, I'm wondering whether spindle braking a mill is worth the trouble at all. I guess I'll have to play with this while using the mill in anger, but I'd love to hear your opinions and experiences.
    Spindle brake can be helpful in cases of needing to stop and measure, or reposition a collet block and the like. Simple things but some times you don't have the patience to wait a bit for the spindle to stop before doing something, especially if it's repetitive.

    Ross has done a crazy modification on his FP2, adding a brake drum, operated by the rapid lever, only towards the other direction.... I bet the pics were stored in photobucket which is a real pity....

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanvg View Post
    Ross has done a crazy modification on his FP2, adding a brake drum, operated by the rapid lever, only towards the other direction.... I bet the pics were stored in photobucket which is a real pity.
    Ross, if you see this and still have the pictures handy, please repost them. I think this is one of the best examples I have seen of extensive machine modifications and improvements which (a) matched the spirit/character of the original machine and (b) matched the quality of the original construction. I don't want to make you blush, but frankly it's inspiring.

    [EDIT]

    I found Ross's thread, reposted a couple of years ago, with all the photos intact:
    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...e-brake-342223
    Last edited by ballen; 11-08-2019 at 04:58 PM.

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanvg View Post
    Ross has done a crazy modification on his FP2, adding a brake drum, operated by the rapid lever, only towards the other direction.
    That sounds like a nice way to do braking, though I'm unlikely to undertake that sort of project for the next decade or so . You'd also want to tie the brake into the motor off switch loop, that's what my Chinesium lathe does.

    Maybe I'm overthinking this though - perhaps I can just set the ramp-down time to whatever minimum works for slow spindle speeds. Presumably at slow spindle speeds the motor has much less inertia to contend with, and so should be able to brake quicker.
    At higher spindle speeds it'll then just end up braking a little bit, then coasting the rest of the way.

  6. #104
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    Default How to adjust X-gibs?

    Hey y'all,

    When I put the table back on my FP2, I adjusted the gibs pretty much higgledy-piggledy by feel. I went for where I can feel it noticeably tighten towards each end of travel. I did, at the time, wonder in which order to adjust them, but as I had other things to do before running the mill, I didn't dwell on it much.

    John's thread and his stuck gib(s) jogged my memory on this, and made me realize that I totally overlooked the gib locking screws.

    So, I'm going in again, hopefully to do this better. From this thread it sounds like I should adjust the upper gib first, then the lower one to pull the table back to the saddle.
    It looks like the locking screws should bear down on the shoulder of the gib adjusting screws to lock them in place after adjustment.

    Does this sound right?
    What sort of feel am I looking for when tightening the upper gib alone?

    Thanks,
    Siggi

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    I found Ross's thread, reposted a couple of years ago, with all the photos intact:
    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...e-brake-342223
    Wow, that's a very cool mod! Same config as my Chinesium mill to put the brake inside the machine-side pulley.

    Interestingly I got this pair of brake shoes with my mill
    img_20191108_182300.jpg
    which I initially thought belonged to the rapid feed clutch. A quick look at the parts diagram disabused me of that notion, so I guess they're just a random part that got pulled with the mill.
    Last edited by sigurasg; 11-08-2019 at 07:00 PM. Reason: them's shoes, with pads on, not just pads.

  8. #106
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    Hi Siggi,

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    What sort of feel am I looking for when tightening the upper gib alone?
    For what it's worth, Franz told me to loosen both gibs. Tighten the first until the table won't move at the tightest point, and back it out half a turn. Then to do the same for the other gib. I don't recall the order.

    Cheers,
    Bruce

    PS: I do not recall if the slope on these gibs is 1:50 or 1:100. Suppose that it is 1:100. Then each 1mm of gib motion modifies the gap by 0.01mm. I also do not recall the thread of the gib screws, but suppose that it is 1mm per turn. Then half a turn of the gib screw moves the gib by 0.5mm, which in turn changes the gap by 0.005mm = 5 microns. So if my two assumptions are correct, then Franz's rule of thumb amounts to leaving about 5 microns = 0.0002" of free play.

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  10. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    For what it's worth, Franz told me to loosen both gibs. Tighten the first until the table won't move at the tightest point, and back it out half a turn. Then to do the same for the other gib.
    Thanks, this sounds nice and simple, I'll try see where I get with those instructions. I'm guessing the Y-gib would be adjusted the same way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I'm guessing the Y-gib would be adjusted the same way?
    These were the generic instructions, meaning for all (X, Y, Z) gibs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    These were the generic instructions, meaning for all (X, Y, Z) gibs.
    Right - that's what I figured.
    I didn't quite man up for the X-gibs today, but I did measure the X/Y deflection, and I did adjust the Y-gib. Before adjustment, I managed nearly 10 thou deflection of the vertical head at max extension by pushing on the head by hand.
    I'd noticed there was a bit of a rattle in the test cutting I'd done to that point, and I'm guessing that's why - the gib was pretty loose.
    The tight spot in the Y-axis is way back on the movement, and I tightened the gib up until that spot felt uncomfortably hard to move, then relaxed it by a half turn. I didn't quite have the guts to go to where it bound up such that I couldn't move it at all, though maybe there isn't far to go from one to the other - I'd need more leverage on the hex key though, for sure.
    After this adjustment, I'm barely able to deflect the vertical head by a half thou or so by leaning into it at max extension. The only difference in feel is at the very back of the ram, where it feels noticeably tight.
    When I got the mill the large hex Y-lock at the front of the ram was pretty tight, so I wonder if the most recent user has been adjusting for wear by tightening the lock.

    The X-axis is clearly not optimal, as it gave me about a thou of deflection measured at one end, reaching out as far as I could with my test indicator and Noga base. I'll have to go in and play with it when I have some more time.

    I also trammed the head, and OMG the finish I get on a random 6061 aluminum drop with that random shell mill I got with the mill. It's like a mirror except for a little bit of cross-hatching. At 1000RPM and 5IPM it sounds like a lazy Sunday afternoon drive in the country side - I'm so going to enjoy this mill .
    Last edited by sigurasg; 11-10-2019 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Holy speling[sic] Batman!

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  14. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    These were the generic instructions, meaning for all (X, Y, Z) gibs.
    I just tightened up the X-gibs, drove them in as far as I dared at one end of travel where it's tightest, then backed off a half turn. Didn't overlook or forget the locking screws this time.
    The table feels nice and tight now, though it's noticeably freer in the center, as it to be expected given the age of the mill and the wear on the gibs when I had them out.

    Incidentally, is there a locking screw for the Y-axis gib? I looked for one but I couldn't find it.

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    I believe the screw marked G is the locking screw

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  17. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
    I believe the screw marked G is the locking screw
    Yups, that's where it's at - thanks.
    Of course, however, the oil wiper ("O") disintegrated in a heap of crumbles as I removed it. I guess they're both due for replacement.



    Looking through Franz Singer's site, I see this way wiper set. I guess this is the set that I needed rather than the one I bought.

    I guess I can make up something quickly from gasket material I have at hand for now.
    I couldn't tell from the remains what it would have been made of. Naively I would have guessed cork or something of similar consistency, though it might have been felt for all I know.

    fp2-wiper-parts.jpg

  18. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tudor View Post
    The threads on the main conduit into the junction box on the back of the mill are PG-29.
    I just wanted to say thanks for that nugget of knowledge. I was all geared up to cut 1.5mm conventional metric thread on the mill end, but armed with this little nugget of information I was able to grind up a suitable toolbit and turn the right adapter in one go. Turned out the conduit fitting I'd bought also had PG threads, so I got double use from my toolbit.

  19. #114
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    Default Acceptable vertical spindle play?

    Hey y'all,

    for giggles I put my half-thou dial indicator on the spindle nose to test for play. My magnetic base was attached to the Y-ram, so some of the play comes from flexion of the head, and I didn't think to lock everything up.
    In any case I get about a half division of deflection, or 2-2.5 tenths, though clearly I need at least a tenths indicator and better measurement methods.
    I searched around a little bit, but I didn't find a definite description of how to do this or what's the go/no-go result, except for this one. My (vertical) spindle is greased of course, but is there a definite description of how to measure this - anyone have a pointer for me?

    Siggi

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    I did a bit of milling this afternoon to make some T-nuts for my Chinesium vise. This is how Jersey John broke his end cap casting, so I was a little apprehensive .
    The mill came with a ~1 3/4" HSS shell mill, and the bulk of the milling was done with that.

    I'm milling 4140HT and I ran the cutter at 160RPM and 0.6IPM for the most part. Long story short is that face cutting didn't make a great finish. While it was cross-hatched, the finish was coarse enough that I could see and feel marks - maybe one flute is long, and was doing the bulk of the cutting - it certainly sounded like it.

    Side milling, on the other hand, made a right old racket until I engaged the brake on the vertical head some. It sounded and looked like the shell mill was running out a fair bit, and the gear train in the mill was clacking around.

    The whole thing felt reasonably civilized in that while I could hear and feel bit of "knocking" with the shell mill, nothing was straining or complaining at all. The VFD told me I was using about 4.5A out of the 9A the motor is rated, and the chips were unremarkable - didn't color up or anything.

    After sawing off the pieces, I switched to a 3/8" 3-flute bright carbide cutter which I ran "slow" at 1000RPM to square off the saw cut with the Y, and everything sounded much happier. I side cut about a 3/4" at about 15thou deep, dry at 1IPM, which is 3 tenths per tooth. This did squeal a bit, but produced a very nice finish.

    I apologize if this is a stupid question, but I'm thinking perhaps(???) I'm short-selling the mill and I should be feeding much more aggressively.

    Also, this was all conventional cutting. Do y'all climb mill with these mills? Do you snug up the lock on the axis for it, or is there a recipe for when that's really necessary?


    Siggi

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    After sawing off the pieces, I switched to a 3/8" 3-flute bright carbide cutter which I ran "slow" at 1000RPM to square off the saw cut with the Y, and everything sounded much happier. I side cut about a 3/4" at about 15thou deep, dry at 1IPM, which is 3 tenths per tooth. This did squeal a bit, but produced a very nice finish.
    0.0003" per tooth seems too thin to me. I usually aim to make chips that are around 0.05mm = 0.002" thick. But feeds and speeds are not my thing, so could be that I am not doing things right.

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  23. #117
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    Default Deckel FP2 how to free frozen horizontal quill?

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    Of course, however, the oil wiper ("O") disintegrated in a heap of crumbles as I removed it. I guess they're both due for replacement.
    While Franz Singer doesn’t list the part on their site or on eBay, they responded to my query with an offer to sell me the two wipers. These are two identical wipers, presumably symmetrical in construction. I will post a photo when I get them.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by sigurasg; 11-19-2019 at 04:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    If this were my machine and having no real service or use history, i would seriously ponder cleaning and repacking (term loosely used here) both spindles...Lots of info here on this
    and you need to evaluate your ability to do this level of work.....
    I'm starting to ponder a spindle cleaning and "repacking". I remembered seeing a good thread detailing how this is done, with lots of pictures. Of course when I went back to look for it I couldn't find it again.
    After some more searching I finally found it again.
    Many thanks to Ross for documenting the process so thoroughly, and to Denis for restoring the photos inline in the thread.


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