Deckel FP2 how to free frozen horizontal quill? - Page 8
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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    ...

    He works on a horizontal boring mill I believe (real machinists can correct me if I'm wrong), so he has quite a lot of real estate but I see his work as perfect tutorials on how to tool up and use a horizontal machine.
    ...
    Hi there Jacques,

    I always enjoy this guy's videos, he's a HBM fanatic, refuses to even go to the lathe

    However, I think that 90% of the setup time is edited out... makes it seem much easier that it actually is, when you have to find the correct spacer and correct height clamps and hold everything together for indicating...

    BR,
    Thanos

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  3. #142
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    Hey Thanos,

    Sure, I'm not arguing that you can build what he builds in the time it takes to watch the video. I'm merely suggesting that one should look at how he fixtures things on the table and take some hints.

    For example, a lot of the blocks he uses as fences for example are keyed to the table slots. So the alignment is automatic, no waste of time indicating. Of course, it assumes that a lot of care was taken initially to get the blocks keyed properly in the first place.

    Anyway, I acquired an FP1 about a year ago and still have not used the horizontal spindle but I am thinking of perhaps reproducing that project for myself, a bit smaller perhaps, just to get more familiar with how to fixture things for the horizontal spindle. And one has a perfect example to follow. I'm sure that would be a great exercise to discover the power and usefulness of the horizontal.

    Ciao,

    Jacques

  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanvg View Post
    Hi there Jacques,

    I always enjoy this guy's videos, he's a HBM fanatic, refuses to even go to the lathe
    By the way Thanos, I think you're being a little harsh on him there!

    I have seen him use the lathe!

    Cheers!

  5. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    ...
    Anyway, I acquired an FP1 about a year ago and still have not used the horizontal spindle but I am thinking of perhaps reproducing that project for myself, a bit smaller perhaps, just to get more familiar with how to fixture things for the horizontal spindle. And one has a perfect example to follow. I'm sure that would be a great exercise to discover the power and usefulness of the horizontal.

    Ciao,

    Jacques
    Right, this would be really handy. Plus some blocks to raise your parts.


    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    By the way Thanos, I think you're being a little harsh on him there!

    I have seen him use the lathe!

    Cheers!
    Yes, indeed, I remember that one time he actually went to the lathe

    nice guy, nice projects!

    BR,
    Thanos

  6. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    Hi sigurasg, see my my answer below from a Quebecois exiled in Uncle Sam's country!
    My condolences .

    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    Just go watch any videos on Raymond Menendez' El Metal channel on YouTube. No waste of time with narration platitudes, no vertical spindle, no vise. Just horizontal machining, and fast.
    Yeah, I've seen some of his videos, they're pretty cool. His HBM is pretty big - a walk-in machine.
    I guess I should re-watch his videos with an eye to the setups and tooling he uses.

    Looks like I'll be looking to find or make some setup blocks and miscellaneous clamping hardware.

  7. #146
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    Don't believe there are many "Aa-Ha" moments in this trade. Its all cumulative. Setbacks, failures and small victories..You build on your skills and experience, stretch the scope of what you think you can do....
    You need to strive for a better result with every job...better finish, higher accuracy, faster time to completion.
    The additive effect just sort of builds where one day you are standing in front of a machine with a new project and you just know "I got this"
    It wasn't always that way....

    As to running horizontal...think the work will define when you go that route. Don't think you need to search for ways to use the horizontal over the vertical. The work will tell you. The trick is to be open
    to listening to the work, not being deaf from mono planer thinking.....The "Deckel" arrangement is the perfect instrument to expand your approach.

    I use the horizontal perhaps 1/3 of the time...maybe a bit less. Most is done direct from the spindle...no overarm or support bearing. (don't do that much heavy milling, so generally not much conventional horizontal cutting)
    Lots of long reach boring and extended milling on hard to reach surfaces.
    Surfacing where i want to avoid the droop from weight shift that happens when running vertical.
    Angle plates, vise, and 2-4-6 blocks along with dedicated fixturing for specific work make up the bulk of work holding for running horizontal. One of the mistakes that inexperienced hands make is the reluctance
    to spend the time and effort to make a well thought out fixture to hold a specific project....Time spent here can often make the difference between a good and a poorly executed project.

    Tool and fixture making is one of the real joys of this trade. Gives you a chance to brag in the metal, if only for yourself. Often something that remains long after the job is gone. A reminder of the job, your approach
    and the satisfaction of seeing something completed at your hands....

    Cheers Ross

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  9. #147
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    Thanos, thanks for the all the nice pictures! Here's a couple from me, showing the vise as workholding in horizontal mode. Note the use of parallels to lift up the work from the vise.







    Ross, you wrote

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Tool and fixture making is one of the real joys of this trade. Gives you a chance to brag in the metal, if only for yourself. Often something that remains long after the job is gone. A reminder of the job, your approach and the satisfaction of seeing something completed at your hands.
    I am a convert to your way of thinking. There are many cases where if I spend an hour making a fixture or jig, then I can do the work itself perfectly and easily in minutes. And if I mess up, it's in the making if the fixture or jig, not in working on the part itself. Whereas if I try to do the job without the fixture or jig, it takes longer than an hour and has steps which compromise accuracy or carry significant "screw-it-up" risk.

    Cheers,
    Bruce
    Last edited by ballen; 02-14-2020 at 07:29 PM.

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  11. #148
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    Well put Ross, very well put

  12. #149
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    Default Made a bib

    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    In addition to these wipers, and the Z bellows, to protect both Y and Z on my machine I use this "bib" almost all of the time. It's often missing.

    Fuhrungsschutz 2200-570 Y- Achse fur Deckel FP2 Frasmaschine | eBay

    I got a used one for a few Euros, but it's easy enough to build. You turn two "buttons" that are a loose fit in the holes bored at the ends of the headstock T-slots (see photo above). Then bend up a piece of heavy steel wire into the correct shape, and sew a leather or heavy cloth "bib" onto it.
    I finally got my act together and made up a bib for mine.
    img_20200503_165547.jpg
    I just bent up a 2' length of 3/16" stainless rod from the hardware store. Took me a couple of tries, but got there in the end. Stitched a piece of leather from Lee Valley to it and turned up some Delrin plugs to keep it put.
    The leather is pretty porous - hopefully it won't soak up too much gunk...

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  14. #150
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    I too should make one of those bibs. I don't have any vertical bellows so I've had the thought of making it longer, so it can give some protection to the box ways.

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    Default Braking is good after all

    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I just got the braking resistor and I wasted no time in hooking it up and testing it. I think I might be coming to a realization that it's perhaps not worth much to brake a mill with a VFD.
    Mkay, I've totally reversed my opinion on this - VFD braking is great.
    For most spindle speeds the braking gives me a consistent ramp-down time to full stop with no drama. With my setup it's only when the spindle speed is 1250 RPM or above that there is more inertia than the motor can manage to brake with the ramp-down. However, even then, it's eaten up most of the inertia and the spindle stops quicker than it would have done coasting to stop.

  16. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    You'll want to replace the damaged X bellows. Easy to find either new or used on German Ebay, search for "Deckel FP2 X-Balg".
    I repaired the X bellows that came with it. This worked fine for a spell, but my glue-up didn't hold and the bellows are bulging out again. So I forked out another few Euros/Dollars to our fine Franz Singer for a new specimen.

    Looking back at the photos of the gibs I pulled out of the X-axis, I figure it's worth keeping them in good shape. As this is now a well-loved, but lightly used hobby machine, I don't think I'll be able to add substantially to the wear on it if I keep it oiled and the ways covered.

  17. #153
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    Just as information, for loose way cover material / bibs I find Hypalon the same as used to make inflatable boats out of (Zodiac) to be very good, used on my mill for past 10+ years and still good, doesn't seem to be affected by oil / hot chips etc, yes HSM environment. Stuff I have is about 0.62mm thick so quite flexible. Alan.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails hypalon.jpg  

  18. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    Looking back at the photos of the gibs I pulled out of the X-axis, I figure it's worth keeping them in good shape. As this is now a well-loved, but lightly used hobby machine, I don't think I'll be able to add substantially to the wear on it if I keep it oiled and the ways covered.
    I think that's right.

    I recently pulled out the X and Y gibs from my FP2, the first time in 6 years, after I had new oil pockets scraped in them and installed a hand-pump for way. There was one point on the Y gib where some slight wear was visible, in comparison with 6 years ago. Otherwise they look the same. So if you can just keep them lubricated properly, the wear will be very slow.


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