Deckel FP2 - No power to X/Y/Z axis plus oil leak seepage - Page 6
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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    John:
    I have used "Rulon 142" for lining slides. My local source is "Tri-Star Plastics.

    Rulon 142 | Linear Bearings and Slides | TriStar Plastics

    Rulon was recommended to me by Richard King who posts here on the rebuilding forum...very experienced scraper hand who teaches classed on scraping. He does not use "Turcite" as it has become difficult to obtain....

    Would contact some of the machine re-builders like Singer for a source for slide lining materials....
    You will need the material and a glue kit to do the application. (special epoxy, believe it contains fillers to help level the applied material)

    Scraping is relatively easy. I draw scrape the Rulon and pushing just makes the blade digs in too much (material is relatively soft) It cam be ground with accuracy, and milled quite close on size. Sort of fun to work with.... I have some postings here on doing the gibs on my FP3NC....

    On a different note,been some time since i have had that apart, but don't believe my first gen FP2 has the M6 bolt fitted in the end cover....Not sure what its function would be. The table travel should be limited in overall travel by the fixed travel stops that are doweled to the slide.....Any additional limits would seem to be in opposition to those stops....I would remove that bolt unless you can see a real need for it.

    Cheers Ross
    Hi Ross, thanks very much again for your assistance and comments

    I've sent an email to Tristar to get the ball rolling and see if they have a European supplier. I guess I won't need too much thinking of the X and Y gibs ... is it bought in strips or sheets?

    Noted you comments on the M6 stops - they have gone from both ends. My "Repaired / welded" cap returned today and I found a very minor amount of distortion on the face that mates to the carriage, found the high spots (max 0.5mm around a bolt hole and scraped it into line. Also elected to fit new thrust bearing as they were very reasonable to replace.

    Still not applied power to the X axis yet but hope to within the next 48 hours.

    New taper pin fitted, new shear pin fitted, trip dogs checked, gibs eased ... what can go wrong??

    Cheers

    John

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by crpearson View Post
    Hi John,

    It seems like you're getting to the bottom of it. As I've been following this, my thought kept going to a wedged gib. If you point me to the Turcite you need, I will get it and ship it to you. Just let me know. I'm always here for you my friend
    Hi Cliff - Thank you! I may well need to call on you with regards to Ross's comments on Rulan - just emailed the company to see if they've a European distributor.

    All the best

    John

  3. #103
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    Hi Ross et all

    Already had a reply from Tristar, they don't have a European distributor ... but they can supply.

    They currently stock between .015-.125" thick ... So gent's what thickness would you suggest??

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey John View Post
    Hi Ross et all

    Already had a reply from Tristar, they don't have a European distributor ... but they can supply.

    They currently stock between .015-.125" thick ... So gent's what thickness would you suggest??

    John
    How thick is your brass?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sneebot View Post
    How thick is your brass?
    The quick answer is "Too thick" as the gibs don't seat far enough in.

    As yet I've not attempted to remove it from the gib so I can't say.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey John View Post
    ...

    Noted you comments on the M6 stops - they have gone from both ends...
    Hey guys,

    Opened both my X belows and checked these M6 stops. They seem to be stops for the manual operation, the extra travel that is only available manually after the feed has tripped. This extra travel is not limited by the feed trip mechanism, it's these screws that act as hard stops so that nothing else will have to come close to something else (belows compressed etc). 'similar' hard stops exist on all axes.

    So, I would leave them there.

    Br,
    Thanos

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  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanvg View Post
    Hey guys,

    Opened both my X belows and checked these M6 stops. They seem to be stops for the manual operation, the extra travel that is only available manually after the feed has tripped. This extra travel is not limited by the feed trip mechanism, it's these screws that act as hard stops so that nothing else will have to come close to something else (belows compressed etc). 'similar' hard stops exist on all axes.

    So, I would leave them there.

    Br,
    Thanos
    Nice one Thanos!

    Appreciate your investigation and comments

    John

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey John View Post
    The quick answer is "Too thick" as the gibs don't seat far enough in.

    As yet I've not attempted to remove it from the gib so I can't say.

    John
    Seems like that would be the first thing to determine before deciding what thickness to obtain.

  10. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by sneebot View Post
    Seems like that would be the first thing to determine before deciding what thickness to obtain.
    It may be a quite reasonable move if I wanted the mill out of action but it's in daily use and as I've never had an issue like this so IMHO its a question worth asking from those that have done it successfully.

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    Afternoon all.

    Well the repaired Operator's End Cap is now re-fitted and the manual operation of the "X" feed feels smooth from end to end.

    I have removed the top X-axis gib strip and eximined it under bright sunlight (first time in a week) and there is minor scoring and several places but the main point to note having cleaned it and viewed it under natural light is that the laminated surface of the gib strip would appear to be phosphor bronze not brass as first thought, only the attachment screws at each end are brass. It's thickness would appear to be 0.0675"

    img_3063s.jpg img_3064s.jpg

    Also while writing, I've not withdrawn the lower gib strip because I was unsure if part of the table locking mechanism will drop when I fully withdraw it ... can anyone confirm please?? I don't wnat to introduce MORE issues!

    I have emailed Tristar in the US for a quote on 0.0625" thinking that with it's adhesive and wanting to get the gib further into the slot as "normal" gibs are this may well suit ... maybe a little thinner still?

    Tomorrow I'll try a few tests of the X axis under power

    John

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    If you are afraid of that just push the gib out with a piece of plywood and leave that plywood in
    You can always push the gib back in while pushing out the plywood

    Peter

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  14. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    If you are afraid of that just push the gib out with a piece of plywood and leave that plywood in
    You can always push the gib back in while pushing out the plywood

    Peter
    Thanks Peter - really appreciate your comment.

    Have a good weekend

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey John View Post
    Also while writing, I've not withdrawn the lower gib strip because I was unsure if part of the table locking mechanism will drop when I fully withdraw it ... can anyone confirm please?? I don't wnat to introduce MORE issues!
    If you pull out the lower gib, the locking pin will drop. I don't imagine you can re-fit it without taking the table off - at least I couldn't figure out any way to do so when I had the table off my mill.

    The way I re-fitted mine was to:
    1. Fit the table.
    2. Realize the locking pin was "left over".
    3. Pull the table off the saddle towards the operator side until it just cleared the hole where the locking pin belongs.
    4. Push the pin into the hole.
    5. While holding the pin in place, push the lower gib into the table to retain the pin.
    6. Push the table all the way onto the saddle.

    I can't find a drawing of this on any of the parts lists that I've found, nor can I find good pictures, alas.

    Siggi

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  17. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    If you pull out the lower gib, the locking pin will drop. I don't imagine you can re-fit it without taking the table off - at least I couldn't figure out any way to do so when I had the table off my mill.

    The way I re-fitted mine was to:
    1. Fit the table.
    2. Realize the locking pin was "left over".
    3. Pull the table off the saddle towards the operator side until it just cleared the hole where the locking pin belongs.
    4. Push the pin into the hole.
    5. While holding the pin in place, push the lower gib into the table to retain the pin.
    6. Push the table all the way onto the saddle.

    I can't find a drawing of this on any of the parts lists that I've found, nor can I find good pictures, alas.

    Siggi
    Hi Siggi - Thank you very much for your input I'll keep your notes ready should I need them.

    I've tried to find parts diagrams and images and simply can't!

    I'm awaiting a new material from the US to line my gibs and only when I've got that and feel happy with the top gib re-lined I'll pull the bottom gib trying the method Peter has suggested.

    If that works it will be a real bonus so here's hoping!

    John

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    Over the past month I've managed to use the Mill with no powerfeed to the X-axis while awaiting some Rulon-142 to recover the gibs (another story).

    Today I eased both the X-axis gibs by half a turn and wound the table fully left to right and then right to left and back again - all was very smooth.

    So .... I started the Mill, reduced the feed speed and engaged the powerfeed running the table from left (door end)to right (Operator end) ... hand on the powerfeed lever. As it approached 50mm from the end (Scale 0-400mm) I disengaged the feed then engaged the feed for 5-10mm at a time waiting for the lever start to disengage and sure enough the powerfeed disengaged at 397mm so the Trip dogs had worked and functioned correctly.

    Remember this machine crashed and broke the Operator End cap considerably before this point when it last happened -- So has the fault gone??

    I motored the table back to the centre (around 200mm) and then engageed the powerfeed to run the table right to left, again remember I'd tried this last time and the trip dogs had done their job.

    As before I let power take the table to within 50mm of the start of the scale (Zero) and engaged it ever 5-10mm. All was well until 5mm from the end then the powerfeed dropped out with a little click. The table was jammed and the Shear pin had done its job and snapped.

    A hard application of the X-handwheel in the opposite direction freed the table - damage this time was a bent LOWER gib strip adjustment screw and of course a shear pin.

    I removed the lower gib strip screw and started to slide out the gib out - initially for the first 15-20mm it was silky smooth the gib hit a tight spot which felt like suction or a vacumn was holding it! a little more pressure and it continued to be very smooth to withdraw. While I've fully withdrawn the upper gib to examine it, I have not fully withdrawn the lower one as I do not want the table locking pin to drop.

    Thanks to Peter's last comment above I'll cut some ply or something and ease the gib out to fully inspect.

    Definately still got mixed emotions about this mill.

    John

  19. #116
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    Definitely feels like you got some issues with the lower gib galling in place to me. That's how mine came, already pre-galled and the adjustment screw also bent, some real deja vu feelings from your description.


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