Deckel fp2 vertical spindle ( Lock nut)
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    Default Deckel fp2 vertical spindle ( Lock nut)

    Hi I'm working on my vertical spindle. Have a question i loosened them the two locking rings that are on the spindle to remove the bearing to be able to clean it. I decided not to remove it without cleaning it properly. Now I'm going to put the lock nuts back on and wonder if these should only be tightened to hold the bearing in place or are there to adjust something. anyone know what this bering looks like?. Best regards volvo 140140spindlen.jpg

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    That style spindle has a tapered OD where the bearing sits. The bearing has a matching taper on the inner surface of the race.
    The size of the bearing can be adjusted (some) to adjust for wear and give the running clearance needed.
    Suggest you apply some very light oil to the bearings and assemble to the quill.
    Once assembled , test the radial play in the spindle. Need a good tenths reading indicator for this. total side play when assembled without grease should be somewhere around .0004-.0005"

    If the play is too great, disassemble and tighten the retaining ring some, and re-test. Keeping track of the amount the lock ring is moved and the change in the clearance you can get a good idea of the amount needed to
    give the proper clearance.

    Once the adjustment is final, clean the bearing (in place) and lightly lube with the appropriate grease. (Frantz Singer)

    Cheers Ross

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    Hi. Thanks for the reply. I didn't think those retingrings were for adjusting bering. too bad I already removed them. Perhapshad If i not done that I would not have had to adjust it. I tried to get the bearing off and it didn't want to move at all. so this may not have changed it anyway but it shows when I measure it.

    How do I do to best measure the radial play in the spindle? Best regards volvo 140140

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    This is how I measured axial play, but by reorienting the indicator to read against the inside of the taper and moving it sideways one can measure radial play.


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    Dennis, don’t you need the indicator tip on the inner rather than the outer part of the spindle?


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    You are correct, I've never noticed that before but yeah the setup as shown is obviously wrong. I remember though that photo is taken after the final assembly of the spindle with grease, as I forgot to take any photos of it when doing the actual checking of play without grease, I only took the photo to have something to show but I guess I got it wrong as I wasn't that careful in setting it up.

    I hope I didn't have a true brain fart and did the measuring that way too (it was a while ago now...), but I remember I got 6 microns and I doubt I would have gotten any readings doing it that way

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    ballen it is correct. But it is the lower part of the spindel that dennis has the indicator difficult to see it however in the picture. I wonder if any of you know why I don't have 2 level glass only has one sitting on the same side as the speed dials. Best regards volvo 140140 20200101_193235.jpg



    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Dennis, don’t you need the indicator tip on the inner rather than the outer part of the spindle?


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    Actually I believe I will recant, I did set up my photo correctly and the setup there will show any axial play. The picture makes it seem as if what it measuring is the outer spindle. But no go and check your spindles, rotate it and you will see the whole front face rotates and is part of the inner spindle assembly. If you look at photos of the spindle disassembled you will also notice it.

    I also see Thanvg does the same here (post 13):
    1964 FP2 horizontal spindle adjustment

    It takes a while for me to shake the rust of old memories I guess, but I started digging deeper because I didn't think I'd make such a mistake for the photo and not notice...

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    okay. thanks dennis. I'll take and measure my spindle has only measured it with a Chinese 0.002 mm indicator and without grease. Should buy a real indicator. before I do the final assembly. I have looked over everything and find only 1 glass on my knee. seems strange to everyone I've looked at on the net seems to have one at the top on the same side as the shift levers and one on the same side where the door sits. I do not have one to sit on the same side as the door. Best regards volvo 14140

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    Your machine having only one sight glass is strange and nothing I have seen before, but my experience is limited. What is the serial number of your FP2?

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    Hi to all,

    it would be nice if we could see an operator side image of the machine so as to get an idea about its generation. I did have a look at older posts of yours and didn't find one.

    However I did find images of another (?) vertical spindle than the one you show here... (deckel fp 2 vertikal head problems). So you have a twin vertical spindle Deckel?

    Anyhow, when I overhauled my horizontal spindle with the help of the forum, I remember Ross commenting that the taper-bored 'adjustable' bearings were an earlier design decision, that was dropped later on. My vertical spindle (long-reach, so a bit younger part) has the usual needle bearings that are on most Deckels. I can say that I might have prefered the adjustable type, to save me from a future visit to Mr. Singer's....

    BR,
    Thanos

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    Hi. Haha Deckel fp2 vertical spindle ( Lock nut) I have written wrong, I mean, of course, the horizontal spindel apologizes for that. Don't know how to change it in the thread.

    I think my machine is from 1958 Serial number 45601. I think it is very strange that I do not have more level glass. I'll attach some pictures.

    Okay yes as you say it is probably better to have them the bearings so you can adjust them. Have those other needle berings in my vertical spindel that you see in the other
    thread. Best regards volvo 140140


    20191228_191401.jpg20180128_015041.jpg20200102_092407.jpg20180204_142604.jpg

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    I see, my FP2 is serial 46558. So it's was made about 950 machines later than yours, still in 1958 based on what I have read, really close to being in 1959. And your machines number might place it in late 1957 instead of 1958, more info here:
    Interesting serial number information for the FP2 series


    It seems between our machines they moved the on and off switches upwards and I guess added another oil sight glass. And I believe yours has 400mm X-travel while mine has 500mm X-travel (Deckel goes back to 400mm again later).

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    Exactly,

    this one belongs to the first of the first generation FP2, with 400 mm X travel and start-stop switches between the dials, that's exactly why asked for pics

    (I almost bought a machine like this from Switcherland two years ago)

    Back to the subject of the spindle adjustment. In my thread that Dennis linked to I have gathered precious information (mainly from Ross and Mr. Singer via Bruce) regarding adjustment. Have a look.

    BR,
    Thanos

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    Looking at the drawing you see if you follow the link in post 8 I see it is a poor bearing design from Deckel
    Normaly this sort of bearings are locked between 2 sets of retaining nuts or better against a shoulder with a distance ring ground to size and one set of retaining nuts
    Clearance if new should be 0.003 to 0.005 mm according the manual on a Hembrug for a simular bearing
    That is without grease and no or very very light oil (like water)
    Whenever you install a new bearing if you have the equipment I would advice to check tolerances on ID OD roundness and squareness of the shoulders and straightness of the shafts
    Probably you are in for a surprice
    I did it on a few occaisians Never had one that was even close to the tolerances given by the bearing manufactorer

    Peter

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    Thanks for all the good advice I get here. it is really appraise.

    Okay then it was a little older than I thought unfortunately. That's right because I only have 400mm in x now when i measured it.

    As for the spindle, I do not intend to replace the bearings, but only clean them and then lubricate them. I do not have the equipment required to verify it unfortunately hope that you will be good with little grease.


    I wonder if anyone knows if it is possible to buy the bearing that is on the X handwheel side, I can't find any numbers on what kind of bering it is. The bering that sits there is a Tapered one. Best regards volvo 140140

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    Picture or original spare parts drawing would help

    Peter

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    I do not have instructions for my model but only for the newer one. There should be a regular bearing called skf 51106. but it may be because mine is the first generation it does not sit that way.
    Best regards volvo 140140
    screenshot_20200106-011444_drive.jpg

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    my horizontal spindle got stuck but has now removed it. Both the spindel and the house look good. But it is very sluggish to touch I can not push it with my hand at all. I get it in a while and then it doesn't move at all. If i take the locking ring and just pass it over the spindl, it hardly goes on at all. suppose this should not be the that teight, i think you should be able to move it back and forth without any major problems or ? does anyone have an idea on how to solve this?
    ? Best regards volvo 14140

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    There should be two thin lock nuts on the inside of the thrust bearings for your "X" axis lead screw.
    Sounds like they are too tight.
    The inner nut adjusts the play on the thrust bearing and the outer one locks the adjustment tight.....
    You will need two "hook" style spanners of the correct size to effectively make this adjustment.

    When correct you want the shaft to rotate freely , but mot have excessive backlash when changing direction on the hand wheel.
    The thrust bearing is the key to this.
    It is a bit difficult to get at and will take some fiddling , but it can be done.
    My personal technique is to get both nuts snug against each other, with the thrust adjustment on the tight side.
    Then make it a bit looser by loosening just the inner lock nut slightly working against the outer lock nut.
    This will tend to tighten the pair of nuts together while giving a bit of clearance to the thrust bearing.....Shaft should turn freely, without excess play...

    Takes a bit of trial and error...
    Cheers Ross


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