Deckel FP42 NC - weight of components/transport

I've been looking for a used CNC milling machine with a capacity that is rather big for me (about 1000mm in X, at least 400mm in Y) and because my workshop is not very big I figured out that the best machine with these constraints is a Deckel FP42NC (I guess I could compromise on the X a bit and live with FP41NC, but they seem to be popping up less frequently?).

As there are not a lot of those to buy I'm looking at transporting it a long way and to minimize costs I would prefer not to have to rent a crane or a car with a crane. The problem is my forklift is only up to 2t and it seems FP42NC is more like 4t. And here comes the question: could someone more experienced in these machine tell me how heavy are its components? How much is the table, the milling head or how much is just the base with the milling machine part? Or how much is the base with the milling part with the whole Y axis taken out? Or in other words: is there any way to split it so that the heaviest part is less than 2t, but so that it doesn't require spending all day dismantling the machine?

There is no rational way to break it below 2 to. Also the load center will be way out.
Be careful to buy a sound machine.

Ok, thanks! I guess I’ll just have to calculate the extra cost.

Regarding soundness, I’m mostly concerned about the CNC control and the spindle. I don’t need it to be very accurate at the moment and in the long run I might want to scrape it anyway (and these are usually 30-40 years old machines so I’m not counting on getting a mint condition in my rather low budget). In the long run I would also think about a retrofit, so I’m also primarily looking for versions without a gearbox. Btw, anyone knows if there’s an easy way to recognize a gearbox vs a VFD version?

If you can inspect the machine check the X-slide on top And also the back These ways tend to get severe damage

If the machine is far away you could have it delivered at the place witchs has the truck with the articulated crane and a good enough fork lift And then have it delivered at your place at their convienience

Peter

Peter from Holland said:

If you can inspect the machine check the X-slide on top And also the back These ways tend to get severe damage

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Thanks for the tip! Is it because of the forces of the entire milling machine sliding on an X-slide?

Also, do you maybe know if FP42s have hardened ways? I'm fine with having to do some scraping, but if they're hardened it gets tricky. I'm scraping a Deckel FP1 at the moment and I know FP42 is much bigger, but I think it would be doable in my workshop with a biax, assuming the ways are not hardened

Never had a FP42 or 41 apart So cannot tell if the ways are hardened
Did Deckel had hardened ways on its CNC machines???? I do not know
BTW
Your assumtion that a biax is faster is only so at finishing
Roughing goes faster manually IMHU Wiith a wide sharp blade you can take long strokes

Peter

Peter from Holland said:

Did Deckel had hardened ways on its CNC machines???? I do not know

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I vaguely remember reading about it somewhere, but can't find it now, maybe I confused it with another machine? I know AVIA had some of their machines with hardened ways.

Peter from Holland said:

Roughing goes faster manually IMHU Wiith a wide sharp blade you can take long strokes

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Interesting. I thought I'm going quite fast with a 30mm blade on a biax already, but I guess makes sense, biax has only 25 or 30mm max stroke. What kind of width/radius do you use for roughing this way?

Some notes regarding the FP42NC:
-I don't think there is a VFD version of this model.Its succesor FP50(much better designed) is equipped with one.
-In case you buy a late 80s/flip head model it will propably have hardened/scraped ways(z axis ways are notorious for galling in the NC line,x axis ways are also in moving column NCs).In case you need to scrape anything, keep in mind that all moving parts are >500kg...
-Early eighties machines with "roundish" head are much louder than the later ones.
If you are on a tight budget, keep in mind that all these machines are 30-40 years old and some spare parts might cost half the machine you are going to purchase.

zephyrous said:

Some notes regarding the FP42NC:
-I don't think there is a VFD version of this model.Its succesor FP50(much better designed) is equipped with one.

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Oooh, I somehow missed that model entirely, I'll be on a lookout. Do you know if FP50 had hardened or regular ways?

Regarding the VFD I'm sure that I saw at least one FP42 where the description claimed it's VFD but now I'm thinking it might have been a retrofit...

zephyrous said:

-In case you buy a late 80s/flip head model it will propably have hardened/scraped ways(z axis ways are notorious for galling in the NC line,x axis ways are also in moving column NCs).In case you need to scrape anything, keep in mind that all moving parts are >500kg...

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Just to confirm - you mean that the flip head model had hardened ways? And the rest regular ones? I would really prefer non hardened ways.

Regarding the weight - yeah, I'm prepared for that. Or at least I think I am

zephyrous said:

-Early eighties machines with "roundish" head are much louder than the later ones.
If you are on a tight budget, keep in mind that all these machines are 30-40 years old and some spare parts might cost half the machine you are going to purchase.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I heard about that, but thanks for a reminder! I would be most worried about the CNC control. If something expensive failed I guess I would probably go all the way for a retrofit anyway (and yeah, I know this is like 10k+ easily depending on the option). And regarding budget it's not that I have very limited budget, it's rather that what I'm starting to do is a side business to what I do for my day job (computers... meh, at least pays really good), so I prefer to start with a low investment amount. Also, I have a few things in mind, so I'm still considering different options, so if I can't buy a decent machine with a bigger work envelope that fits the workshop I might reconsider and try something smaller for other projects I think about.

If you have an FP50 then you have room for anything, but you are also King of the Hill.

There just was a very nice looking one for sale in Germany for 5k. But I have no place to put it and no idea how to move it.
It even had the table integrated rotary table. The FP50 is a magnificent beast!

Also IMHO there are no really expensive Dialog 4 issues anymore and Dialog 11 has become very affordable.

Found this one
A candidate perhaps ???

https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/doe-he...3-metaalfreesbank-defect.html?previousPage=lr

Uuuh! very rare very interesting.
Control must be dead since monitor is not on. Why else would one take such picture, right?
This should be follwed up.
Peter go get it. I can fix the control for you (95% sure).

On edit: it actually says the control has issues (as a German I can read dutch after I put some alcohol in my morning tea)
Also the word "defect" helps

I asked what he wants for it.
I let you know
So you are boozing again

Peter

Martin P said:

(as a German I can read dutch after I put some alcohol in my morning tea)

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I thought that was how a German speaker shifts to speaking Dutch . But I haven't had the courage to try it myself, not yet anyway.

Thanks for further info!

FP50 indeed looks awesome, but also even bigger than FP42. Not sure who to believe, cause it seems like each page I find gives different dimensions and it looks like it might be 7-8t? Not sure if I could even get it to my workshop.

Btw, anyone knows if it has hardened ways?