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Deckel FP4A lubrication

Harri89

Cast Iron
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Hello!

I bought a 1987 Deckel fp4a with contour 3 control. This is my first cnc machine ever.
Now i am wondering, if i press the lube button on my controller, does it pump it to all way lubrication lines on every press of button? I hear the pump sound when i press the button.

The machine has been 3years without use, never run in production, used by one user only in repair and tool work.

How could i varify that the way lubrication is working properly?
 
Way lube pump supplies way oil to all slides....that is if everything (feed checks) are clear....
Should supply lube with every cycle of the pump...Need to pause a few seconds between each cycle to allow the feed checks to cycle (close when the pressure drops, ready to deliver another measured
amount when the pressure rises )

Should be able to see oil beading up along the joint between the "Y" slide and the base casting of the machine when the pump is cycled several times....

If in doubt, remove the operators side cover panel (remove hand wheels if present, and retaining bolts). With the cover off you can easily see the feed plumbing that goes to the Y slide......If the lines are filled
(see through) remove one of the banjo bolts
and cycle the pump...some oil should weep out of the fitting....
Be sure the lube oil tank is topped up...

With the cover off you should see the flex lube line that supplies oil to the vertical slide, the table (X) and the screws for both the "X" and "Z"......There is a delivery manifold at the bottom of the vertical slide that is fed from that flex line and something like 30 feed checks to all the slides and screws with the exception of the "Y" . The opposite side cover from the operator covers the remaining feed checks that feed oil to the non operator side ways of the "Y" slide......

Lots going on here in the lube department.....
Feed checks can get clogged or stuck and stop working....long periods of inactivity is never a good thing for mechanical systems...

For my money, i would (and have) verified that every check was working on a machine when received and unknown.....Deckels have a nasty habit of having slide trouble on the inside face of the vertical box ways (gauling and
scratching) .....
Ample oil delivery (often) mitigates the problem.....
Cheers Ross
 
Mobile vactra 4 or vacuoline 1419 ? Mobile dte 25 suitable For hydraulic and transmission/gear oil?

I got the machine for very nice Price, the tooling
What came with it is Worth multiple times what i paid for the machine. I didint need to think twice, buy or not :)
 
There those that will say it doesn't matter , that Vactra 4 is fine.....
Me i do the Vacuoline 1419....in relative terms oil is cheap, and i believe that the Vacuoline is a shade better, and worth it to me...Takes a bit of looking to find it and you won't get it in small containers (at least i can't)

Smallest containers i find are 5 gal...But using the machine almost every day that quantity lasts about a year....

As to the gearbox....i use a good quality "AW 46 hydraulic oil" (Mobil DTE 25) AW stands for "anti wear" and you need that formulation to protect the gearbox gearing from excess wear....
If your machine is high mileage and not operating in a cold (unheated) shop then perhaps an AW 68 would be fine...(heavier oil may make the gears run a bit quieter) ..

So where are the photos ?

Cheers Ross
 
Okay, i am not able to get vacuoline 1419 :( only vactra 4, is there some other brand what is equivalent to the 1419?

I will upload some Photos when i get better ones :)
 
Your machine will not die if lubricated with Vactra 4. Just keep it lubricated and keep an eye on the inside vertical slideways. Vactra 4 is used on slideways all over the world. If there really was a problem with it, I believe we would have heard about it by now. I have heard of a bad batch of slideway oil causing damage plant-wide (and a very expensive insurance claim), but it was a different brand.
 
There those that will say it doesn't matter , that Vactra 4 is fine.....
Cheers Ross
One of those who says it doesn't matter, checking in.

Have two FP4NCs, been running 6 days a week for many years now. Couldn't find the Vacuoline 1419 when we first got the machines, Vactra 4 was readily available and that's what we use. Have not had any lubrication problems, no galling, nor unusual wear on either machine.

Don't mean to disagree with AlfaGTA and I hold his opinion in the highest regard, but my experience with Vactra4 has been great.
Thanks to input from Ross and a few other FPNC users, I do pay very close attention to the lube system, and am careful to add plenty of lube cycles in my programming and daily use, especially on programs which have lots of repetitive, small Z moves.

Also, FWIW, both my machines have the lube interval timers set to cycle more often than the factory default.
 
Thanks for your answers, i get vactra 4 and try to live with it :D

How does the vertical head gears/bearings get oiled? In deckel manual is mentioned spindle oil but not shown where to add it?
 
Do not own an "A" series machine, but i can tell you about the drain plug on the vertical head on the FP-NC machines.(the "A" vertical heads are different from the FP-NC vertical heads)

So the story goes like this:
The operators manual for my FP4NC (1st generation camel back vertical head) gives a detailed description of using the drain plug on the vertical head(located above the hand quill feed dial , as part of the casting boss that
holds the vertical tram plunger) ....It gives a procedure where you tilt the vertical head, remove the plug and fill the cavity with oil to the bottom of the plug drilling....Provides lube to the drive gears in the vertical head...

When i bought my FP4NC in 1993..it came from Germany (bought used directly form the factory) It came with a warranty and arrived with a factory technician, Volker Spitz, to do the install.
The question on the oil to the vertical head was addressed by Herr Spitz....He told me to forget the manual instructions, and not to fill the cavity with oil...Rather i should remove the plug every 30 days, and tilt the
vertical head to point the plug drilling straight down, and allow any oil in the cavity to drain.....

I was confused by this instruction and asked again if i understood his instruction....He was quite clear. "Drain the oil every 30 days of operation"
There is oil fed to the gear (metered small amount i am led to believe, witnessed by the fact that oil keeps appearing when i remove the plug.)
I was told that there was a factory service bulletin that dealt with the change in the lube procedure for the vertical head....
That a small amount of oil was all that required to lube the bevel gears.

I have been using this procedure since i got the machine (1993) and as far as i can tell all is well with the gears and bearings...Further, think failure to drain the oil will eventually result in the oil getting high enough
in the head to enter the spindle bearings and wash out the grease....

Additionally it should be noted that the late Flip head FP-NC's were designed with a drain built into the vertical head to allow the oil supplied to the bevel gears to return to the sump of the "Y" slide.

Take the above information with a grain of salt, as said before, your vertical head is somewhat different, and may have different requirements...

Cheers Ross
 
I used my deckel a week ago for longest time i have used it. Week later i saw this. Looks like grease coming out, how is this possible?

I am worried that the horizontal spindle bearing grease is coming out?
IMG_20190223_214020.jpg
 
Not seen that before....Think two potential causes:
1. Spindle has been rebuilt by someone who used too much grease when assembling....Should have very little grease there if done properly....Seeing that grease coming out suggests
too much to start with.

2. Might be that oil from the gearbox is trying to flush the existing spindle grease out...Be sure that the oil levels are correct and not too high...Should be at mid sight glass level with the spindle off
and having stood motionless for a few minutes....My FP4NC has two sight glasses and both need to be at proper height. Forward sight glass only gets its oil once the rear glass is to level.
One can fill the forward gear section directly by moving the vertical head back (as when running horizontal) and pouring the oil in forward between the dovetails,. (where the vertical head mounts)

Above regarding filling the forward sight glass might be irrelevant as looks it like your machine has but one sight glass for the gear box...Looks like you have to extend the "Y" ram to make the glass visible.....

How hot did the spindle get with extended running ?
Excess heat is an indication that the bearings have too much grease especially if running at higher RPM's....

If this were my machine i would be taking that spindle apart to clean and re-lube the bearings using the correct Kluber grease.

Cheers Ross
 
Today i was running it at 4000rpm. The horizontal spindle was getting definately hot. I could hold my hand on it but it was hot.

Vertical spindle didint heat up any.

Front sight glass is at red line, rear one is little above it.

How precise is this machines oil system from leveling?
I had once both sight glasses at red lines, after some use, oil didint drain to front and rear sight glass was overfilled.
I lowered the fron machinen mounts to get the oil drain back to front.

It was Pushing abit more grease out from the horizontal spinldle, how fast should i pull it out and regrease with klueber?

Do i do some damage by using the machine now on?
 
Good morning as i brought a f4a. Without manuals.

My problem at the moment is where can i find the drain plugs and filler plugs?

And is there any chance where i can find manuals in English ? Mine is the same as yours

Thnaks in advance
Loren
 
Good morning as i brought a f4a. Without manuals.

My problem at the moment is where can i find the drain plugs and filler plugs?

And is there any chance where i can find manuals in English ? Mine is the same as yours

Thnaks in advance
Loren

Well I'll managed to find all the plugs.

My last question is do i need to fill my vertical head with oil ?

Thanks in advance
Loren
 
Can't answer your question directly as i don't have any experience with teh "A" series of machines...
But would believe that your vertical head is really no different from the earlier FP-NC vertical heads...
Suggest you read my post #12 above and go from there....
A note to Singer in Germany might be the ultimate final answeer.
Cheers Ross
 








 
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