Deckel model 6017 Rotary Table 380 mm / Rundtisch - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Hi Ross,

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    I did all parts as individual pieces. Not tested the distortion of the top under clamping.....
    I am doing the same, will make sure that the top (individually, unattached) is flat and parallel to the bearing surfaces. So under clamping forces it will deform somewhat.

    I suspect that this is a product of this design, while being handy, not the best as to maintaining accuracy of the table. The top will always bend under clamping ...that design breaks one of the basic machine "setup" rules by having the load of clamping applied
    away from the support...ie cantilevered.....I would never clamp a part to my machine where the riser or spacer was not directly under the point of applied clamping force....
    Yes, agreed. But it's good to know that the rotary table top has this property. In cases where it might matter one can probably compensate for it.

    Further because of the slot configuration i would bet that the bend of the top by the clamp pull down is not constant.
    Indeed I could see this effect. The T-slots form beams, and along those beams there is less distortion than in the orthogonal direction.

    I like the ease of use, but for keeping the table flat, edge clamps that bear directly over the support of the face bearing are just better. I would be interested in knowing the clearance you measure between the ID and OD of the rotary bearing surfaces?
    When I get the table top back from lapping in a week, I'll measure this. The clamping force is applied on the bolt ring, around radius 70mm. The inner bearing surface is around 100mm, and the outer one around 190mm. Do you want a measurement say around 145mm radius, which would be about halfway between the inner and outer bearing surfaces?

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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    Bruce:
    What i am interested in is what is the running clearance on the cylindrical elements that define the rotation of the table about its center line....
    I believe what is involved is the OD of a cylindrical section of the worm wheel that spigots into a bore in the base of the table...this
    becomes the rotary bearing...Would like to know on yours what amount of clearance do you measure...

    Cheers Ross

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    G'day Bruce,

    Have only now found this post as am beginning the process of cleaning up my recently bought second hand Deckel Rotary Table and looking for information on the process.

    I have enjoyed reading through this post, as in fact all your posts, as you approach everything methodically and have provided a good reporting of your work. So thanks to you and all that have contributed to this and other Deckel FP threads.

    I am going to strip my RT completely down and clean thoroughly; repair if/as required; repaint the previously painted castings and reassemble back to OEM standards if possible. I have removed the smaller external items, but find myself concerned as to how to remove the top rotating table from the base without damaging the worm/worm-wheel assembly.

    I do not have any literature that shows the internal assembly or how to disassemble one, so I am wondering if you know of such a source or can describe the process.

    Thanks for any thoughts.

    Regards

    Quentin

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    G'day Quentin!

    Thanks for the kind words, I am glad this has been helpful to you. I do these reports in part for myself, so that in the future I can go back and see how I did something. My memory ain't so reliable...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cueball View Post
    I have removed the smaller external items, but find myself concerned as to how to remove the top rotating table from the base without damaging the worm/worm-wheel assembly. I do not have any literature that shows the internal assembly or how to disassemble one, so I am wondering if you know of such a source or can describe the process.
    Steps are:

    (1) Rotate the eccentric mechanism for the worm gear so that it is DIS-engaged. Lock in place.

    (2) Loosen the threaded retaining ring on the bottom so that it spins freely. Remove long handle, but don't remove the threaded ring yet! See the three parts on the right in this photo. I suggest you mark the position/orientation of the threaded ring and handle with a felt-tip marker or scriber.

    (3) Flip over the table so that it is the right side up. Attach chain hoist or weight-lifter buddies to the table top. Remove threaded retainer ring from the bottom.

    (4) Lift table top fractionally and tap with plastic hammer to vibrate it, so it slips upwards.

    (5) Repeat step 4 until top is off

    From here it should be obvious. If not, please ask again!

    Cheers,
    Bruce

    PS: Ross, if you see this post, note that your photos earlier in the thread are no longer visible. It's a shame, they are useful to others.

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    G'day Bruce,

    Thanks for your quick reply.

    I had done everything except to use the plastic hammer to "vibrate" it when attempting to lift the table top off the base. I had managed to get a couple of mm gap between the table top and the base by rotating the table top on the base whilst lifting it, but it stuck at this point at every attempt.

    Uncertain as to whether the worm-wheel was somehow interfering with the worm carrier, and fearing to use force without knowing something of its innards, I desisted and began the search on PM thus finding this thread.

    I will attempt to remove it again using your methodology on Monday and even attempt to get some photographs too.

    The discussion regarding flatness has been fascinating. I will also seek to see if I find the same levels of distortion with the clamping process.

    Thanks for your help

    Regards

    Quentin

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    Quentin,

    It's not necessary to remove the worm gear, see this photo for proof:



    The point is that the center part of the base functions as the bearing and is probably ground or finished to within a few microns of the bore size. So even a tiny misalignment will lock them together. Hence a bit of vibration or wiggling is needed. Are you using a lift of some kind to pull up so you can do this in a controlled way?

    Here is a parts diagram that might also be helpful:


    To help you and others I put my complete set of photos into this public photo album, they are in reverse time order.


    Cheers, Bruce

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    G'day Bruce,

    Thanks for the info.

    I believe that you are correct with regard the 'fit' of the central shaft/bearing being the main cause of my disassembly issue.

    I was using an overhead crane in much the same way as yourself, but may not have had it levelled as accurately as is needed to allow the base to slip off without catching.

    So I will give it another go, making certain to keep a better control on the levelness and using the soft hammer to help the effect of gravity

    Your photographs are a good resource for all to see. Well done!

    Thanks as usual

    Quentin

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    G'day Bruce,

    Well success came with your modification of my technique. Using the soft hammer to gently tap the table produced the results desired.

    What I found was that the innards are stained from the coolant ingress that had occurred into the chamber under the table.

    Where the worm assembly is located and rotates to engage the worm wheel, there was a small pool of water/emulsion/oil, however as mentioned, no real corrosion, just staining. I have no idea how the oil was supposed to lubricate the sliding surfaces, however there was an oily film and no pick-up or obvious wear. Looking at the location of the lubrication window, it is obvious that the oil level was severely low, however no obvious corrosion found - hooray.

    So it is a matter of cleaning everything, bead blasting the base before repainting it and then reassembling everything with the correct lubrication.

    I will attempt to post some photos in the new year.

    I hope your Christmas was filled with joy and awe.

    Regards

    Quentin

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    Bruce, do you have any photos of the finished table top? I think the photos in the album begin with the top after your machining steps.

    I pulled out my rotary table this week for a project, and the sump is completely dry and the table top has a few divots, so I am considering whether to follow your steps. I have stored my table in a large drawer in a Vidmar cabinet, and since the table hardware extends down below the base of the table, I have stored it upside down since I bought it. No oil leaked out, so the reservoir was empty when the table was purchased.

    Dave

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    Hi Dave,

    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    Bruce, do you have any photos of the finished table top? I think the photos in the album begin with the top after your machining steps.
    I can't do it now, but later I'll have a look. If I don't have a photo, then I'll make one.

    One the table is filled with oil you'll want to store it right-side-up!

    Cheers,
    Bruce

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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    Hi Dave,

    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    Bruce, do you have any photos of the finished table top? I think the photos in the album begin with the top after your machining steps.
    I just checked, and I don't have any photos from after the top was finished. I'll take some photos in the next day or two and post them.

    Note: once the table is filled with oil you'll want to store it right-side-up!

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Note: once the table is filled with oil you'll want to store it right-side-up!

    Cheers,
    Bruce
    Hi Bruce, I will make a shelf to set the table on. I have some other rotary tables that I store top side down, but the Deckel is the only one with an oil-filled reservoir.

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    Dave:
    Here was my approach on the top of a well used table that i have.....Some old edge damage at the ends of the "T" slots where the angle becomes steeper and makes for thin edges...



    Cheers Ross

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  17. #54
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    Ross, it looks like you were working to very high standards (as usual)! I have some cast iron surface plates that are about that level of flatness, but not much else. My table has had a rough life by comparison, it has several divots that are 2mm or more deep, about the same as the side bevels. So I will be happy with skimming it and getting rid of the high spots. I will check the blueing after I surface it on the mill with the table clamped. Did you check the contact pattern again after the table was back together and clamped?

  18. #55
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    Hi Guys,

    Well, this thread was a very useful find, as I've just purchased a 2nd hand rotary table, and wanted to clean it up. Turns out the inside was coated in grotty oil and sludge. I PM'd Bruce regarding a few issues, and he was kind enough to help me out.


    Just to let you know, when I cleaned the table up, I noticed that the bolts and dowels retaining the indexing ring, passed through the table, and were visible at the bottom of the T slots. Removing the bolts, and using a pin punch on the dowels in the T slots, the ring was relatively easy to remove. I've just replaced it, and put a bit of non-hardening gasket cement on the bolt threads, just in case coolant tries to make it way down the threads one day.

    The gear ring looks like too tough a cookie, and I don't want to force anything, so I'll be leaving it in place. I believe I got it clean enough without removing the gear, so I replaced the cap-screws retaining the gear this afternoon. Luckily I noticed that one had a hole drilled down the center. Checking the six threaded holes in the table top, one lines up with the oil fill/lube plug in the top, so this was where the drilled cap-screw ended up. (I can imagine how annoyed I would be if I went to fill it with oil and couldn't get it in.

    Cheers, Steve

    PS. If anyone knows of a simple way to remove the gear from the table top, I would be interested to hear.

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