Deckel Scams in Germany
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  1. #1
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    Default Deckel Scams in Germany

    So in Germany we have "EBay Kleinanzeigen" literally EBay Small Ads, kinda like Craigslist, but without the sexual services section.

    For some time now screaming Deckel deals would be offered there occasionally, unfortunately by people with no phone number or e-mail and "privat" handles.
    They are usually in the Frankfurt area about 1,5 hours from me. So I have been contacting them that I take the machine, can be there shortly and will bring cash and a truck. Then nothing will happen and a day or two later I will get a mail from EBay that said persons account has been blocked due to suspected fraud.
    So this morning this was advertised, can you spot the inconsistancy?
    Fraud FP2AD by Martin Peitz, on Flickr
    Supposed to be in the Heidelberg area, a little south of Frankfurt.
    My attention was caught by the electrical connectors in the top left on the wall.
    The left one I cannot identify, which is strange in itself, but the one next to it I only know from Switzerland (but it could also be a very old german one no longer sold). I have never seen this one in Germany.
    To confirm my suspicion I made a reverse picture search and promptly came up with a Ricardo auction (EBay-like in Switzerland) from summer last year.
    So clearly a scam once again.
    But how do they expect to get the money?
    I guess they do not want someone to actually come by and collect, like I always suggest to them.
    I guess they are looking for someone far away who offers to buy and pay in advance and to then have a shipping company to come and collect.

    I think I will modify my response tactic.

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  3. #2
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    Wow what a funny thing to choose to run a scam!

    The receptacle on the left is the standard 380 (400)v 3 phase one in Switzerland. You can plug either a 3 phase plug into it or a 240v single phase; pretty handy.

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    Happens all the time
    Just had a warning from Ebaykleinanzeigen for a Weiler Praktikant 500R
    They are all over Germany
    They only respond when you let them know you do not plan to pay them a to visit
    I buy from Ebay kleinanzeigen regulary and never come over to inspect a machine That has cost me a couple of €1000,- in one occasion All part of the deal for me
    Most of the time it works out great and saved me more as a couple of €1000 in travelling expence
    So no change of strategy for me
    Price should be worth the risk though
    On more than one occasion I expected it to be a scam but turned out in a perfect deal
    Now I always say I am comming over to inspect while I never plan to

    Peter

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    This time I broke the wistle and EBay has suspended the account already.
    The seller on Ricardo wanted 15000SFr, the seller in Germany 3800€.

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    This has happend to me several times there .

    They never have Paypal . They want money ona bank account .

    Then I got the warning message from Klainenzaigen.

    I never had problem with Ebay

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    Just don't go for the most overpriced machinery out there, ie latest version of Deckel FP1/2 and you likely won't get scammed.

    There is plenty of other good iron out there, like that thing that can be found on a scrapyard in north-western Germany.

    1.jpg

    I'd take that SHW UF11 over a FP1 any day, BTW

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    Hi,

    I spotted the outlets also. I spent six years plus in Germany in the 70's and 80's, two assignments, loved the time there, the people and travel opportunities.

    Our grand kids thought Neuschwanstein was Nana's castle due to the pictures we have and telling them about visiting it.

    Regards,
    Bob

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    I bought my surface grinder (J&S 540) sight unseen from Ebay Kleinanzeigen. I talked to the sellers on the phone for just a few minutes, and the story that they told me about the history of the machine made complete sense. And they sent me fresh photos of the ways just a few minutes after I asked for them.

    I think a phone conversation with the seller plus a request for some more pictures will identify 99% of the scammers right away.
    Last edited by ballen; 02-23-2021 at 04:27 AM.

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  12. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    I bought my surface grinder (J&S 540) sight unseen from Ebay Kleinanzeigen. I talked to the sellers on the phone for just a few minutes, and the story that they told me about the history of the machine made complete sense. And they send me photos of the ways just a few minutes after I asked for them.

    I think a phone conversation with the seller plus a request for some more pictures will identify 99% of the scammers right away.
    I thought so too But scammers also learn

    Peter

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    I've also been offered Deckel stuff, can't remember how they got my email.

    Most of the times they are using pics off F. Singer ebay listings

    BR,
    Thanos

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    Hey Peter,

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    I thought so too But scammers also learn.
    I didn't read your earlier post until now. Wow, YOU got scammed? OK, then I take back everything I said, if they are smart enough to scam you, they are smart enough to scam any of us. Really that's too bad. I've bought lots of machine/tooling stuff on Ebay Kleinanzeigen over the years, and never had any problems or issues.

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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    After being scammed about two PC graphics cards in Denmark - with a seller I had a nice, long phone conversation with - I have become wary.

    Last year, right before Corona closed the borders, I drove from Bornholm in the Baltic Sea to a small town in Germany close to the French border.

    To pay for and pick up a small Chevalier FCG - 610 tool grinder (small but 125 kg). So I avoided being cheated and to ensure safe arrival

    of the machine. BTW, I am looking for the available accessories, but I don't have much hope. I have only the standard C5 collet dock and a

    fixture for circular saw discs. The drill grinder attachment would be great to have.

    Cheers
    Erik

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    We had a guy here on the forum, I think it was Deckelnut, that used Singer photos to sell things. IIRC some never showed up and he disappeared.

    That scrap picture is a bummer. I'd like that FP42. And somewhere in the world a Faberge egg is being thrown away with old x-mas decoration right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin P View Post
    And somewhere in the world a Faberge egg is being thrown away with old x-mas decoration right now.
    Yes, I remember you just missed a late FP1 with all the good stuff that went for 3000€ on eBay....

    I have friends in other places in Denmark - they go to auctions and sometimes get lucky. But I am stuck here out in the Baltic Sea.

    Nah well, I wouldn't have the space anyway.

    And I'll have a 1970 SK40 FP1 to sell later this year. Plus a SK40 High Speed head and the rare FP1 raiser block. I had to rescue it.....

    Cheers
    Erik

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan.A View Post
    I never had problem with Ebay
    Ebay is expensive, it costs 10%. If you use Ebay + Paypal it's even more, especially if a currency exchange is involved. BUT it provides a very good level of protection for both the buyer and the seller. I have seen this from both roles, and for me it makes the 10%+ "tax" worthwhile.

    Note that these costs are all charged to the seller. But experienced sellers know that and past those costs on to the buyer. So in the end, it's the buyer who is really paying that extra 10+%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Hey Peter,



    I didn't read your earlier post until now. Wow, YOU got scammed? OK, then I take back everything I said, if they are smart enough to scam you, they are smart enough to scam any of us. Really that's too bad. I've bought lots of machine/tooling stuff on Ebay Kleinanzeigen over the years, and never had any problems or issues.

    Cheers,
    Bruce
    I buy the more expensive stuff. Not much to gain for a scammer in some tooling. I got scammed on a Schaublin 70
    The problem is that if it is legit I have to buy it fast Otherwise I am too late I have bought machines for screaming prices on Kleinanzeigen And on some I hesitated a bit and was too late But all in all I am in the plus for sure and keep buying on Kleinanzeigen

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Ebay is expensive, it costs 10%. If you use Ebay + Paypal it's even more, especially if a currency exchange is involved. BUT it provides a very good level of protection for both the buyer and the seller.
    If you buy on eBay use a credit card and not your Paypal balance. Last March I "bought" a Deckel centering vise on German eBay and payed for it with my Paypal balance. The seller never sent it to me and resold it again on eBay. If I had used a credit card I could have cancelled the transaction. As it was Paypal wouldn't refund my money and said it was eBay's problem and eBay said it was Paypal's issue.

    Regards,
    Nigel

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    Here is another fake posted this morning.

    Fräsmaschine Deckel FP 4 in Nordrhein-Westfalen - Werl | Ersatz- & Reparaturteile | eBay Kleinanzeigen (ebay-kleinanzeigen.de)

    Nigel, what you describe does not match my experience. Also i just got 99$ back from Paypal due to paying at a fake shop in China. My first such case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tudor View Post
    Last March I "bought" a Deckel centering vise on German eBay and payed for it with my Paypal balance. The seller never sent it to me and resold it again on eBay. If I had used a credit card I could have cancelled the transaction. As it was Paypal wouldn't refund my money and said it was eBay's problem and eBay said it was Paypal's issue.
    I am surprised, I thought that both Ebay and PayPal protect you in this case! I have been refunded several times, without any drama, in cases where items were not shipped or were damaged upon arrival.

    Did you wait too long to report that the vise never arrived?

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    So the above ad from today is already cancelled.
    I did contact the seller just for fun, this time saying I would not inspect.
    To my surprise he called me with a real phone number, spoke good german (rare) and was coherent.
    When I asked him why the machine was on EBay twice before but in Bavaria, he was briefly startled and then said he bought it there and wants to sell it on now.
    Strangely he used the same pictures as the 2 times it was posted by other people before.
    Smell test not passed.

    The ad was removed now as fraudulent.

    But the guy is good, I can see people fall for him.

    To clarify previous comments, I am not actually looking for such machines, but cannot help noticing them. So it is a bit of a sport to follow up.
    Only when they are real close I do get all energetic and worked up. But in my area of agriculture and castle tourism that does not happen often.

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