Deckel Style Mills
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  1. #1
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    Default Deckel Style Mills

    Hi All,

    I was wondering if the Japanese or Chinese ever made mills in the style
    of Deckels or Mahos with universal toolmaker tables? I know about the
    Makino series.

    Has any Asian mfg. made a mill in the style of the XLO 602 or index 867.
    only a little beefier?

    I don't want to have to import something from Europe, if possible.

    Peter, in the Netherlands, has a Heckler & Koch that I would like, but
    he doesn't want to spend any time emailing about it, and I don't want
    to bother him. For the money he is asking it's not worth the bother
    for him. Most likely it wouldn't be suitable for some reason any way,
    documentation only in German, etc...

    I wonder why the Deckel style of machine wasn't more popular in the US?

    It's to bad that the Bridgeport style machine was/is so popular - it has so many
    design flaws! That tilt head design is an abomination, when compared to the XLO,
    or the Wells-index design. The deckel's X axis way design makes it very versatile.

    I would like to find a Deckel or Maho or ??, with the toolmaker's table, higher
    speed head like on the later NC versions, and a dead CNC unit with English
    documentation. I would like to convert it to a manual mill. I guess you
    can use the Dialog 4 like a manual mill and that would be OK also.

    I have a very fast cnc mill, and I don't need another one.

    Well so much for my ramblings,

    Paul

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    Default

    Have fun turning Dialog4 machine handwheels by hand, you'll look like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his best times after a while.

    There's a reason why it has servos, things like constant feedrate and because hardly anyone wants to turn a stiff handwheel like 200 times to move the table from one side to the other. Readout and NC features of a working control are nice too. Gear shifting without control would be quite difficult as well.....

    Overall, it would be quite stupid to turn a Deckel/Maho CNC into a stupid handwheel machine. Or the very last option before sending it to the junkyard, at least.

  3. #3
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    Default

    If you want a Deckel style machine, you should buy it from Europe. There are lots of machines for sale, see www.ebay.de and especially ▷ Used Deckel for sale - Machineseeker

    Along with Peter in Netherlands, you could contact Franz Singer, and also CNC milling machines: Deckel FP1, FP2, FP3, and others, Deckel-Maho milling machine | FPS Werkzeugmaschinen GmbH

    I highly recommend FPS. I just bought a new FPS 300 M from them, great company to work with, and they are all ex Deckel employees who really understand these machines. They can prep and ship the machine to the USA.

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    DeadMahoDude,

    I would use still the servos. You don't need a CNC control to run
    the servos (if you know what you are doing).

    A dead Deckel/Maho would be old and not worth trying to resurrect
    as a poor man's CNC, But as a retro manual it would be OK.

    There is no way to turn any old Deckel or Maho into a competitive
    CNC, and not worth any money trying to do so. It would make an interesting
    project for this old retired controls engineer to use as a hobby machine.

    Because of the machines configuration it can be competitive for
    unusual one-off jobs that you would find it difficult to machine
    on many newer machines. So for specialty shops that do this kind of
    work, deckels can make economic sense.

    For any real production work these old machines should be retired,
    in favor of newer technology.

    Paul

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    Default

    Seems a bit of circular logic going here....
    would think a controls engineer would be up for upgrading the control of an older Deckel NC.....or making the original function.

    I am with DeadMaho i that i think going backwards and making a euro NC machine (Deckel/Maho) back to a manual version would be pretty counter productive...
    Not in the sense of making money with the machine but in time and resources expended to have an inferior product.
    There is a sense by some that a manual machine gives better fine control/feel on one offs , etc....That is just not the case! Deckel FP-NC's have sensitive quills...and high precision positioning on a rigid platform.
    angle and rotating tables to help do the unusual.....

    Really not sure why anyone would wish to go back to a manual machine after experiencing a good CNC.....

    The argument about making money in production is valid, but really even when these machines were brand new they were not target at production....
    these are tool room machines....and remain such. Still viable as prototype or special requirement machining....model makers , inventors, or repair works...

    They can do stuff that current high dollar wizz bang CNC packages just can't......

    I make a pretty good living running a 86" vintage FP4NC pretty much every day...If there was something new equal or better for my tasks i would have gone that route years ago....
    But in reality there just isn't.

    You want manual, buy a manual machine..Maho and Deckel made those as well as CNC's
    And further..might wish to look at e-bay. Currently Milacron is offering a nice euro style manual mill...very clean and ready to go...

    Emco FB-4 Deckel style milling machine | eBay

    Cheers Ross

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    Hi Ross,

    The manual machines have rpm on the order of 2,000 - to slow.

    I frequently use my Gorton Profiler just because it's quick and easy.

    Ross, you were the specialty shop that I was alluding to.

    Why would you want to put a Ferrari engine in a model T -
    it just makes no sense. As an engineer I try to do what
    makes sense to me. Just because I'm a retired controls
    engineer doesn't mean I put a control on everything I see.
    IE: the guy with the hammer only sees nails.

    I already have a CNC that is very fast and accurate, so why
    take a machine that's old, and well past it's sell by date, and
    turn it into an inferior CNC, to what I already have?

    Just because you can does not mean you should. I would use
    the retro Deckel to do the one-offs that are more easily done
    on the Deckel - Yes, I could do them on my CNC but sometimes
    I just like the immediacy of doing it manually, and not having
    to go to my CAD/CAM, etc...

    Why do we have manual machines anymore - yes CNC can do it all,
    (notice I didn't say how many axis machine) but most of us still
    have at least one manual machine.

    Ross, how much is Milacron asking for the Emco, $16K I think, and
    how competitive is that price in today's market? What else can I
    buy for that price. I paid $2K less than that for my CNC, with tooling,
    and it can run circles around the Emco. What function can the Emco
    provide that I don't already have? Emco's don't have as good a reputation
    as the Deckel for reliability.

    Paul


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