Dialog 4 RS232 pin config.
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    Default Dialog 4 RS232 pin config.

    G'day Chaps,
    I've just aquired a Deckel FP4NC with a Dialog 4 control. I would like to hook it up for DNC using CADEM NCnet lite. Does anyone know the pin configeration for the RS232 cable for 9 pin at the PC to 25 pin at the control?

    Thanks a lot

    Brett

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    Do a search on this forum. I posted the pinout some time ago. I don't have it on the top of my head.

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    "I would like to hook it up for DNC using CADEM NCnet lite. "

    Brett: would like to know if this works out...as far as i know the only real DNC that you can use with a Dialog4 is the hardware change on the NEP 52A board and special file splitting software like the Betz "AutoDNC" . You may indeed get files to transfer, but don't think you are going to get real DNC.....if this works out please let us know.....


    As to the cable setup...here is the pin configuration i use on my DNC setup:



    DB9 DB25
    2................................2
    3................................3
    7................................4
    8................................5
    5................................7

    DB25: Tie 6,8 & 20 together

    Other things required: Headder must be exactly correct.
    last line of program must be 4 zeros.

    Use $ for inch programs and M for Meter programs.

    Easiest way to get the header layout is to write a short program MDI and transfer it back to your computer. After you get the file transfer working....see how it looks and copy it . Only change is that the last line on the program from the control will have some number as the last line.....change this to always be "0000" and it will work fine.
    Cheers Ross

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    I also change the six Hex characters in the line above the start of the actual G-code to six zeros.

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    Thanks very much to everyone for the information.

    I'll post the results when I'm done.

    Cheers

    Brett

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    G'day chaps,
    I 've got my FP4NC stored for a while but still have power connected up to it. I farmed out the job of manufacturing the DNC cable to a friend (don't ask how long ago!!) He came good yesterday (he has been really busy) so I had a go at file transfer from my laptop to the Dialog 4 last night. I checked the settings were the same on both and the RS232 was turned on on the controller. Nothing happened, I ran the serial port check in the DNC program (Cadem Net lite which should be good for just file transfer) still no joy. I went back to some old posts about the RS232 pins and found one from Deckel Doctor saying pin 2 and pin 3 need to be reversed on one end. Could I get some clarification on this please so I can eliminate the cable as the problem.

    Thanks everyone

    Brett

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    The scheme at the top of this thread-->http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ighlight=RS232 works. I was using it today. Do you have an Ohmmeter to check that the wiring by your friend was correct? Also, are you trying to use a USB<->9-pin serial converter on your laptop? If so, sometimes those converters can be balky. Fixing them involves going into the System icon on the Windows Control Panel and making sure the hardware shows up and the right COM port is selected.

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    G'day everyone,
    Well it has been a trying couple of days. After trying 3 different cable configurations, FINALLY!!! some sucess. I paid the $14 AUD to get access into the data bank of CADEM for their wiring diagram for their software (NC net lite) Total waste of time!!!! It didn't work at all. Hours upon hours wasted trying every combination of settings to get it to work. As a last resort I tried the CIMCO DNC Max 5 Demo and Ross's cable diagram and within 10 minutes I had a file transfer between my laptop and the controller. The Cimco software has some info in the help index especially for Dialog 4 and Dialog 11 port setup and they say in can support drip feeding if you have the right hardware installed. I can turn the DNC on in mode 14 so I am going to give it a go. Just hoping I haven't damaged anything with all of the drama i've had. I've transfered a file back and forth between the laptop and the controller easily but I can't seem to take a post processed file in the laptop and transfer it into the Dialog 4. What file extension, format and structure do you need to transfer easily between the two?

    Thanks everyone for your advice. I would be totally stuck without it!

    Kind Regards


    Brett

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    Brett

    See the top of this thread --> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ight=parameter for an example of a formatted text file. Beware the six zeroes in the line ($%29/000000) and the four zeroes at the end of the file. When you download from the D4 to a PC, those zeroes will be something else having to do with file size in memory or a checksum. If you try to send the file back without changing those characters to zeroes, especially if you modify the file in any way, the D4 will puke. Also, one of the characters in the header lines, perhaps the $, denotes an Inch program. If you want an SI program, you have to change the character to something else, which I don't know off-hand, because I'm a Neanderthal inch guy. Given that the real Neanderthals now buy their spears with Euros and measure their mammoth hides in meters, I suppose I'm even more primitive than they. A more enlightened Deckelite can tell you what characters to change. The D4 manual has it, too. Happy milling!

    RKlopp
    Last edited by rklopp; 05-22-2008 at 01:41 PM. Reason: bad grammar

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    Rich:
    Program header characters: $= Inch, &= Meter.

    Brett:
    if you are able to turn "ON" the DNC while in mode 14, then you must have teh required hardware....good news!
    The bad news is that you still need the proper software. Think the list is relatively small of providers that have software that will do teh Deckel DNC. This is not as conventional "Drip Feed" system, and most suppliers have no idea how it works! Got my Software as part of the hardware package about 10 years ago from FPS in Germany and the maker of the software is "Beetz" in Germany. (do a web search)

    The Deckel DNC in short works like this:
    The software is in two basic parts.
    First there is a program that "Splits " your large program into bite sized chunks . The splitter also adds file markers to the header and footer of each chunk so it can be kept in order.

    Once the file is split and marked it is labeled with a program number and correct extension. The splitter numbers each chunk in order and stores the files in the correct folder ready to be sent to the control.

    The second portion of the DNC software works as a file transfer program. You request the beginning program number from the control
    (you must not have any other program numbers in memory that conflict with the split program numbers, and you must have enough free memory to accept at least two complete split programs...usually about 1000 lines long)
    The control requests the file from your PC and the download begins.

    Once several of the split programs are in memory and the machine is setup with tool numbers and offsets the automatic operation can be started in mode 9.

    The machine will execute the split programs in order and as they are completed they will be deleted by the control to make room for additional files to be sent. The process will continue until all the split programs have been run in order .

    There are a number of details to this process , but you get the idea....

    Cheers Ross

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    G,day Everybody,

    The last few days have been very interesting. I,ve set up the Cimco DNC-Max software on my laptop and have nearly cracked the drip feed transfer into the control. It appears to work pretty much the same as the software you have described, Ross. On my laptop I have a file (430kb) I have called 1000. In mode 16 (with the DNC function in mode 15 turned on) From the control I highlight IN press ACKNOWLEDGE and type in 51000 in the highlighted box down the bottom of the screen (the 5 in front of the 1000 asks for the program to be split for transfer to the control) The words NLP aus %51000 appear on the screen and the program begins the transfer. It's split into smaller programs %51001, %51002 %51003............. which appear in Mode 13 with the same words NLP aus %51000 appearing beside that program number. I can run %51000 to the end (line N9999 L 0 %51001) but the machine stops at the end and won't move to %51001. Is there something simple I'm missing, everything else seems to be working perfectly. I,ve had a look at one of your old posts, Ross at the file splitting structure and it appears to be identical as what I have.

    Thanks once again everybody, The advice you all give is invaluable

    (I would't say the same for the Deckel manual that came with the machine!)

    Kind Regards

    Brett

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    Brett:

    Not sure what the problem is. My DNC splits the programs in the PC using the DNC program. For mine i call the program number directly and have no front number to tell the program to split the files. In my setup the first program to load is very short..about 90 lines and it is there to allow all the machine settings to be done such as tools , G90 or G91, inch or meter, G64 etc....

    In my setup you must wait for at least 3 complete program sections to load before starting to run the program. There is some hardware changes that happen to the file headers. When a program first begins to load it is always seen by the control as a meter program even though i work in inches most of the time. If the machine starts up and runs the first program before the second has completely loaded it will see the second part as a meter program and the results will be quite different. Seems the control changes the header to indicate each section is in inches once the program segment is fully loaded...this happens in the hardware i believe as the file is sent as an inch program......The cure in my case is to make sure that the control is always ahead of the machines working. This was as simple as allowing three segments to fully load before starting any cutting.

    Can you adjust the amount or size of programs that are created with your DNC? If you can i would try to make them smaller and try make sure at least two or three are resident in the machines memory before starting. Might be some trouble with having that large a program and trying to start another...just a guess here.

    This is a sample of the footer and header on my DNC once teh files are split.




    N867 X-.658 Y+0.0007
    N9999 L0 %2002

    ?
    0000
    Û
    $%2002

    %
    ($%2002/000000)
    N1 X-.6549 Y+0.0112
    N2 X-.6547 Y+0.025
    N3 X-.6473 Y+0.0392
    N4 X-.6436 Y+0.0526


    Cheers Ross

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    G'day Chaps,
    Well, still no luck with drip feeding. I can't get my controller to do an unconditional jump between programs ( L0 %next program number). I've tried different combinations and even writing small programs on the control and trying to jump between them. No luck, BUT it will do the jump between lines in the one program. My software level is only 2.33 but the machine has been fitted with the DNC option. I am begining to believe that to get the control to work with the program splitting software it must have the 3.07 software level. I've read on the Dialog 5 website (Great site!!!) that you must have the 3.07 level for DNC operations. I assume that is the ability to "drip feed" with file splitting software. Is my theory about the SW level correct? And if it is, Are the upgrades still available? (without costing an arm, leg, kidney and fair section of a lung?) Also is it possible to reset the control with out having to turn it off completely?

    Thanks for your patience everyone (and the advice!)

    Kind regards

    Brett

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    Brett:
    I can't say about the level of software and the DNC working or not....I have 3.07 and my DNC just works..... The guys on the Dialog5 site are pretty savvy and i think if that is what they say, most likely it is what you need. I would contact "DeckelDoctor" who posts on this board. He ,i am sure , can supply the software upgrade for your machine. You might wish to upgrade even if the DNC is not the issue as the earlier software had some math and rounding issues i am told. Can't say about the cost.
    If by "reset" you are talking about the re-loading of the software, here is the procedure:
    Open the operators station top cover.
    With main power on and control on, pull the wire tape jumper K10.
    (connects 4 boards across the top)
    Pull the green power connector from the top of the NSV board. This will drop the power to the control.

    Re-connect the K10 jumper wire tape.
    Re-connect the green power connector.
    start control and follow the prompts to "Clear" and "accept" the new setup. This process will clear any memory resident programs from the control and you will need to re-enter the settings for your file transfer and reset the machine to "Inch" if needed.

    Otherwise, if the control becomes "confused" the only other choice is to turn off the main power switch and then back on again. Re-start the control and continue...this second process will not change any settings ion the control provided your batteries are good.

    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    "I would like to hook it up for DNC using CADEM NCnet lite. "

    Brett: would like to know if this works out...as far as i know the only real DNC that you can use with a Dialog4 is the hardware change on the NEP 52A board and special file splitting software like the Betz "AutoDNC" . You may indeed get files to transfer, but don't think you are going to get real DNC.....if this works out please let us know.....


    As to the cable setup...here is the pin configuration i use on my DNC setup:



    DB9 DB25
    2................................2
    3................................3
    7................................4
    8................................5
    5................................7

    DB25: Tie 6,8 & 20 together

    Other things required: Headder must be exactly correct.
    last line of program must be 4 zeros.

    Use $ for inch programs and M for Meter programs.

    Easiest way to get the header layout is to write a short program MDI and transfer it back to your computer. After you get the file transfer working....see how it looks and copy it . Only change is that the last line on the program from the control will have some number as the last line.....change this to always be "0000" and it will work fine.
    Cheers Ross

    What is the meaning of tying the 6, 8 & 20 together at db25 end?
    I need to make a cable in few weeks, it it just linked togheter with cable pieces?

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    Just as it says.
    Use a jumper (small piece of wire) to connect the #6,8 & 20 pins together...Easy to do at the DB25 connector for your cable.

    Cheers Ross


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