Dialog 4 stops during cycle, triangle characters on screen
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  1. #1
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    Default Dialog 4 stops during cycle, triangle characters on screen

    I'm having an odd issue. I was pocketing with the Dialog 4 using G72*1 and G74*1, and at the end of the finishing cycle while rapiding away the machine stopped, the screen went blank for a few seconds then came back on with all the coordinates at 0.0. I switched to Mode 4 and back to Mode 9, and the screen looked normal again. I checked machine location and it kept the zeros I had set. Ran another part, it stopped again near the end of the program. I suspected it was heat related so I shut the machine down for the evening. This was after having it powered on for 5 days, the shop was about 80°, a temp gun showed 90° on the electrical cabinet and 99° at the hottest part of the operator console - over the monitor.

    I left it off for 2 days, then tried it again. The machine was about 10° cooler. Ran 3 parts w/no issues.I left the control on overnight.

    Next day, on the third part the screen suddenly showed triangles at each axis readout, but the machine kept running. 2 minutes later, the program completed correctly but the triangles stayed on the screen. Switched to mode 4 and back to 9, triangles disappeared. Ran another part, the machine stopped in cycle, the screen stayed on but the spindle stopped and servos stopped, as though the cycle stop button had been pressed. I had seen the Z axis coordinates changing to 0.0000 instead of correct negative Z location so I was afraid if I tried to restart it I might send the tool through the bottom of the part. So I stopped there for the evening and shut the machine off.

    Yesterday afternoon I tried again. I'll post a video of what was happening on screen. Halfway through the G72*1 the triangles appeared and the Z readout kept changing to 0.0000 after each Z move. Later in the cycle the triangles disappeared and the readout returned to normal.
    At no time did any error message appear on the screen.
    I'm currently running the same program with no tool in the spindle to see what happens.

    Has anyone here seen this happen on their machine? Any knowledge of what this means or how to correct this? What do the triangles mean?
    I haven't tried reseating boards yet. This is a FP7NC, the major difference between this and a FP4NC is a 2 speed trans and variable speed spindle motor drive
    20190802_170112.jpg


    Watch the Z axis. It's at 0.0000, it feeds up slightly to rapid to the center of the pocket, shows 0.0000, feeds down .250, then shows 0.0000 again.

  2. #2
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    To me the deltas (triangles) mean distance to go. You can see them by pressing the red button in the middle of the axis move buttons while running a program in Mode 9. In Mode 6 the same button is for stopping the feed. Is it possible that the push button is intermittent on your machine? I have no problem using the button to toggle back and forth between current coordinates and distance to go while running a program. The program does not stop, which is how your machine seems to be acting.


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    Agree with Russ, hopefully just a dirty switch.
    You could also run in graphics mode and see if it makes that error there- press "GXY" in. mode 16.

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    rklopp, by god I believe that's it! Seems like both the red buttons are activating by themselves.
    A couple days ago the spindle started seemingly by itself while in mode 4 as I walked past the console. I thought I dropped something to trigger it without realizing it, perhaps that cycle start button has issues too.

    I noticed earlier while studying the cycle stop circuit and the motion stop circuit both use NO contacts, that makes me nervous, and makes me wonder how they could activate without being pressed.

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    I had to replace the circuit board on which those switches are mounted. On mine, the cycle start button crapped out. Fortunately, there is the second switch on the pod that allowed me to continue running. Thankfully, Herr Martin Peitz had a replacement for not too much money. It seems like that board may be a weak spot in Dialog controls.


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    Circuit board - do you mean in the tool change remote? I don't have one, and the pushbutton switches on the console are all daisy chained together with wires.

    I honestly didn't know about the distance to go feature and still haven't found it in the manual. My manual leaves a lot to be figured out for myself.

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    No, the board that is in the console under the switch that seems to be giving you a headache.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post

    I honestly didn't know about the distance to go feature and still haven't found it in the manual. My manual leaves a lot to be figured out for myself.
    F**ckin brilliant. I didn't know about this feature either until reading this thread. This resolves one of my biggest nitpicks of the Dialog 4. I don't like that it doesn't take the tool length into account when displaying the current location. Makes it slow to proof out programs on first run. With distance to go this will be so much easier and faster. Combine this discovery and G64 (which I learned about last week) and it's like Christmas.

    Teryk

    ** I went back and found this in my manual. It certainly isn't highlighted. Seems I need to read through the manual again to see what else is hiding in there.

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    Some tricky little things in that Old/Stupid control.....
    Pretty advanced i would say for a design this old....
    Assuming that everyone here knows how to move .0001"(.001mm) increments when using the MPG ?
    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by rklopp View Post
    No, the board that is in the console under the switch that seems to be giving you a headache.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Here's the underside of my panel. This board is connected to the rotary switches, the pushbuttons are all just connected with wire to the harness. Is this typical of Dialog 4, or is yours different?
    I still don't have an explanation for the screen blanking when the machine stopped, then coming back on. I dry ran the machine for a short while on Saturday with no hiccups, haven't had a chance to run it since.

    111.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20190805_105556.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Some tricky little things in that Old/Stupid control.....
    Pretty advanced i would say for a design this old....
    Assuming that everyone here knows how to move .0001"(.001mm) increments when using the MPG ?
    Cheers Ross
    NO! Please tell?

    Quote Originally Posted by mTeryk View Post
    F**ckin brilliant. I didn't know about this feature either until reading this thread. This resolves one of my biggest nitpicks of the Dialog 4. I don't like that it doesn't take the tool length into account when displaying the current location. Makes it slow to proof out programs on first run. With distance to go this will be so much easier and faster. Combine this discovery and G64 (which I learned about last week) and it's like Christmas.

    Teryk

    ** I went back and found this in my manual. It certainly isn't highlighted. Seems I need to read through the manual again to see what else is hiding in there.
    What is G64? Was that discussed here?

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    Well, might indeed be the switch...but i think rather its a logic fault.
    The switch toggles form current position to distance to go (delta) which looks as Rich says like its going between the two states when not so commanded....
    Could be a short somewhere, of perhaps the chip on the control board that works this function...

    Changes with temp seem to indicate that its not a mechanical switch issue....

    John:
    Your switch panel looks normal...straight up Dialog
    PC board carries all the mode selector switches. There are outputs form that board that runs through some of the switches....
    Would re-seat all chips. Perhaps do a reload of the E-proms....

    Cheers Ross

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    John:
    One can make the MPG move in tenths, by de-selecting the move increment buttons.
    Those buttons that give "10" or "100" when the MPG is moved one click...

    Well if you select say the "X" axis and the "10" increment button (illuminated) then press that same button once again the light will go out...
    With no increment value selected (none illuminated) the hand wheel will yield tenths moves...This will vary per machine....
    My early "camel back" FP4NC takes several clicks of the hand wheel to make a change...It is not as positive as with the increment value selected, but it does move.


    The reference to G64 is relative to herky-jerky operation of the control moving from point to point....(Slow processing along with trying to hit every point exactly)
    G64 commands the control to "blend" the move to the next point so will give smoother movement .
    Not sure if this only happens when using cutter comp or if it works for every move if called...G64 is modal.

    Cheers Ross

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    When my console board went bad, it was because the rotary switches flexed the board and broke solder joints and traces. The busted circuits included ones carrying the cycle start signal. Others before me had tried repairs, and so did I, but the board went beyond repair, so I bought a replacement from Martin.

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    [QUOTE=AlfaGTA;3394068]

    Well if you select say the "X" axis and the "10" increment button (illuminated) then press that same button once again the light will go out...
    With no increment value selected (none illuminated) the hand wheel will yield tenths moves...This will vary per machine....
    My early "camel back" FP4NC takes several clicks of the hand wheel to make a change...It is not as positive as with the increment value selected, but it does move.
    /QUOTE]

    Got that. Mine does default to .001mm. To move .0001" takes either 3 or 4 clicks of the MPG depending on the position at the moment. I was hoping you had a way to make it move .0001" per click, that would definitely make life easier. Now, because of the weight of the axes and the stick/slip involved, I have to move a click or 2 and wait to see if the readout on the screen changes before I move more.

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    My experience is similar to yours....sometimes i give the slides a shot from the lube pump and that helps get a more consistent move on the tenths setting.
    Cheers Ross

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  23. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Not sure if this only happens when using cutter comp or if it works for every move if called...G64 is modal.
    My experience has been that it works outside of cutter comp. I modified my post to output it after every tool change.

    Teryk



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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Assuming that everyone here knows how to move .0001"(.001mm) increments when using the MPG ?
    I realise that it's not important here but still want to correct this: 0.0001" is 2.5 microns = 0.0025mm. Alternatively one micron = 0.001mm = 0.00004".

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    My statement above is correct....
    Has to do with the smallest value that is displayed by the machine....not a direct math conversion....
    In inch mode the control displays 4 places to the right of the decimal. Therefore the smallest move or display is .0001"

    However working in metric the control displays 3 places to the right of the decimal...or .001mm and if you use the above described technique to move in small increments using the MPG you can
    see changes at the display of .001mm..... although its a bit tricky as the display does try (at least on my machine) to jump by two digits....from say .001 to .003mm ....

    Cheers Ross

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