Do all Flip-up Heads Look The Same
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  1. #1
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    Default Do all Flip-up Heads Look The Same

    Hi All,

    I have been looking at several FP4NC, and some say they
    have a 6,300 rpm spindles, but the spindles look different.
    The newer ones are rectangular with a 45 degree slope near
    the top, and some of them are a raised rectangular face with
    what looks like two round shapes on top, which I assume to be
    a drawbar mechanism. They both look to have a flip-up mechanism
    on top of ram, and connected to the spindle.

    Do both of these have the duplex angular bearings instead of the
    needle bearings. Are both of these 6,300 rpm?

    I have seen some claims of a 5,000 rpm spindles - is there such
    an animal?

    Can you tell by the numbers on the name plate, which is which,
    what is what?

    Is there a web site that spells out information on all the different
    Deckel milling machine models?

    Thank you for any help you can provide,

    Paul Hoffman

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    Would like to see photos of the different heads.
    I am only aware of one version of head for the 6300 rpm vertical spindle machines. (FP-NC)

    Even the 6300 RPM FP42NC has the same vertical head as the flip head FP4, FP3, FP2NC's.....

    Angular contact spindles are larger in OD than the earlier needle roller version.
    Further, the hand feed for the vertical spindle has a much larger dial for gauging hand feed moves.
    The quill lock is different as well, having a much larger handle with a ball on its end and done in black oxide as compared to the bright finished smaller locking handle on the needle roller heads.
    Also, there is no dovetail casting on the flip head for fitting an overarm...The flip head machines use a different setup for an overarm support,.
    There are no bolts through the face of the flip head. All mounting bolts are through a flange at the base of the head.
    Finally, the overall size of the top cover is much larger on the flip head . Factory, this cover is metal and was painted grey, where the 3150 vertical head has a plastic cover, gloss black.
    The hydraulic hose for tool release enters on top of a small diameter extension of the spindle on the flip heads. On the 3150 version the hose enter through the side of the plastic cover at the top when the spindle is retracted.


    Used to be a great resource on the web maintained by Martin Peitz, a member here. Dialog5 had all sorts of good info on machine types , control differences etc....
    Alas Martins domain license expired and he did not renew, so the site is now gone...Pity!

    As to a 5000 RPM spindle, think the FPA's (second generation) had 5K spindles, but i am not positive about that.
    Also should be noted that the FP5NC's had 6300 RPM spindles on both the vertical (flip) and the horizontal spindles. Both had angular contact bearings and vector drive setup.

    Cheers Ross

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    Hi Ross,

    Thanks for the help.


    Used Deckel Maho DECKEL FP 4 NC Machining Center for sale | Machinio

    Used Deckel Maho DECKEL FP 4 NC Machining Center for sale | Machinio

    Both of these have the stuff on the ram for a flip-up, as far as I can tell.

    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post

    Used to be a great resource on the web maintained by Martin Peitz, a member here. Dialog5 had all sorts of good info on machine types , control differences etc....
    Alas Martins domain license expired and he did not renew, so the site is now gone...Pity!
    The wayback machine has a couple backups of dialog5.com, but not every image is there. Here's a relevant page - https://web.archive.org/web/20120425...fp3ncfp4nc.htm

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    Hi Mud,

    That page is a big help.

    Thank you,

    Paul

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    Default

    You mean Deckel Dialog3/4 NC and Deckel Dialog11 NC difference?

    D3/4 NC has the old fliphead without silver plate in front, gear only spindle (about 18 different speeds IIRC, 25-6300rpm on vertical, 25-3150rpm on vertical) and quill on vertical and horizontal spindle. (although the horizontal quill on my D4 FP2NC is more of a joke, small flimsy diameter, jams up at high speed and extends to only about 80mm, would have done better with a more solid spindle without quill, IMO)

    D11 is much different, has the spindle with silver plate in front, same vertical spindle for all models (2/3/4/5NC). VFD and only 2 gear ranges, so good torque at low speed and about infinite range of speeds. Gear switches at about 600rpm, speed range is 30-5000rpm on both spindles, no quill on horizontal, however.

    Because of no big gear box, everything is a bit more massive on D11 machines. Except for repairability of D11 conto with lots of special parts, I like D11 NC machines a bit more, over D3/4. D11 NC/CC also has AC servos, which is also a big improvement, IMO.


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