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Do Maho Mills have Angular Contact Bearings on their Spindles

toolnuts

Cast Iron
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Location
washington
Hi All,

Still working on my quest for a good Euro mill that fits
my budget.

Do Maho Mills have Angular Contact Bearings on their Spindles?

I don't want a spindle that uses the spindle itself to run
needle bearings on. From a previous post I found out that
many Deckels, except for the flip head, use the spindle/needle
bearing configuration.

Happy Memorial Day,

Paul
 
Hi Ross,

I have no aversion to needle bearings, but when the spindle itself
is used as a race, then I have a problem with spindle longevity.

If you gall the spindle race, you would have to hard chrome the spindle
and then regrind it. I rather just change the spindle bearings.

Do some of these machine have cartridge needle bearing?

I was told in a previous post that most Deckels use the spindle
as one of the races, except for the flip head models. Is this
not true?

Another concern I have is about the electronics crapping out. Most
controls die is 30 to 40 years, and it seems that most of the controls
out there are of that age. Electrolytic capacitors die in that period.

I am mostly looking for a manual machine without all the electronic
complications. I have a 1996 CNC that will run circles around most
modern machines today. Rapids at 2200 ipm, feeds to 700 ipm., and
tool changes in .7 sec.

I'm 75, and I don't want a machine that I will have to rebuild or
retrofit - been there done that.

I would get a machine with a universal table, the most useful
and you can adjust out most wear errors.

Paul
 
Paul:
You are correct in that manual Deckels use needle roller bearings on the spindles, having the inner race be the spindle itself and the outer race being the quill..no intermediate replaceable
parts save the rollers themselves.

I will say that in my experience with a fair number of Deckels , both NC and manual, i have yet to see a spindle that you could not just rebuild....If the radial clearance was out of spec.
then fitting oversize rollers was the cure and would restore the spindle to like new performance...

You are correct in that the flip head (NC) machines have angular contact bearings, but only on the vertical spindle. The horizontals still retain the needle roller setup. Believe this is true through all the FP-NC's
till you get to the FP5NC.....There the horizontals also are fitted with angular contact bearings.

My point is that i would not let the spindle bearing setup set me off from a particular machine Maho or Deckel that otherwise filled my punch list...Only place where i see the spindles have become damaged is by water (outside storage) or coolant intrusion.


Thinking that you might have some difficulty finding any Deckel or Maho that does not need some rebuilding.....The manual versions are now pushing 55 years old or more....Maybe somewhere one exists that has never
been used or languished at a school or government facility that rarely got used....Seems like a very long shot.

There are re-builders ,of courser, but really nothing on this side of the pond. They (Deckel. Maho) are just not common enough to support such,and i would be wary of anyone who says that they could do a Deckel unless
they could substantiate having successfully done such.

Cheers Ross
 
Parts breakdown for the manual Deckel here ~92 era, has roller bearings on the spindle. Under the impression it was just the old stuff with needle?
 
As Ross says, my 1986 flip-head FP2NC has needles with no separate races on the horizontal spindle and standard angular contact ball bearings on the vertical spindle. My Aciera F4 has a taper-bore double-row cylindrical roller bearing at the nose and normal rolling element bearings at the rear (I have never had them apart and the documents shows variations, so I am not sure) on both the horizontal and vertical spindles. The Aciera F5 has the same nose bearings on both spindles, but tapered roller bearings at the rear of both spindles. I am thankful that the Aciera F4 has normal replaceable races, because water got into the upper bearings of the vertical head during shipping and wrecked them.
 
Hello!
My early maho MH 600 No1662 has tapered bronze bushings, SK 250s had the same thing. Newer modells has according to the drawing in the handbook needle bearings where the spindle is zhe inner race.
 
I havent done any research on it but would it be possible to turn down and grind from the spindle and replace the bearing with one that has an inner race?
 
My point is that i would not let the spindle bearing setup set me off from a particular machine Maho or Deckel that otherwise filled my punch list...Only place where i see the spindles have become damaged is by water (outside storage) or coolant intrusion.

What if you used a whole lot of WD40 and other similar stuff on the vertical head (because it was dirty as heck) and a lot of it soaked down into the spindle from above. Could that cause issues with the spindle lubrication, like dissolving the grease.
 
I understand that people here that have mechanical awareness might be wary of something that seems to not be rebuild-able....

Joined this forum in 2002 and had already been running Deckels for some years prior. (Bought my FP4NC in 93', and my FP2 in 89')
Thing is in all that time i think i can recall only one needle bearing spindle Deckel that had damage to the bearing races being posted about here. That machine had been left outside for a number of years and water
caused pitting to the inner and outer races.

Just don't see this part of the Deckel design as a problem. Spindles run for a long time. Some initial preventative maintenance such as cleaning and re-lubricating the spindles (something i do on any new machine
i acquire) will go far at providing worry free service from the spindles.

The Deckel system is pretty robust. Would guess that the needle setup was abandoned for the flip vertical spindles because of the higher speeds those heads reach (6300) where ball bearings become a better choice,and ,i might add, cheaper at the manufacturing level....

Cheers Ross
 








 
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