Does having a deckel mean a drill press is superfluous?

DennisCA · Dec 20, 2019

I'm asking this question because yes I googled the question and looked at the answers, several old thread on the PM forums and most of them said a big yes to that question. However one person said he never needed one and that was a guy with a Deckel FP... It does have a quill after all even if just 60mm travel. And with rapid feeds I guess it's not such a big PITA to move the table into position vertically as on some "lesser" mills without feeds or without rapids. So I thought this is a question worth asking deckel owners specifically as we're all working from a similar foundations.

2nd reason I am asking is because I stumbed onto an Arboga E830 drill press for sale locally, with a vice and to a decent price by local standards (875€ after haggling). So I'm wondering if I should try and fit a drill press in my shop or not... I've saved some oney the last year but have got it earmarked for accessoriers and stooling for the mill, and a new adjustable 3-jaw for the lathe so this would take a good chunk out of that fund. I could definitely see me using it, but I've not had a chance to even do any drilling on my mill so I have no personal experience to help make the decision.

Photos of the machine.

Harri89 · Dec 20, 2019

It all depends what you do. Some jobs, which have less needs for accuracy, the drill press is fast and easy to use. Sometimes if you have setups on mill and would need drill few holes, the drill press is good to have.

I drill occasionally some wood with my drill press and i dont want wood chips/dust to my deckel since it gets everywhere.

That model with round table and the table turns around column is really nice to use, scribe lines, center punch and put piece to vice. You rotate the table and the pivot in the Column to locate holes, lock them and drill.. No need to move/rotate piece in vice unless the piece needs that.

I have and vfd driven optimum drill press, its belt driven and i would want a geared one. I hate to change the belt for another speed range.
A gearhead Strands, arboga, ibarmia and erlo are really good machines.

With little setup its also very usefull with a automatic tappinghead for threading holes

Rob F. · Dec 20, 2019

DennisCA said:
I could definitely see me using it, but I've not had a chance to even do any drilling on my mill so I have no personal experience to help make the decision.

It seems that you do not NEED it, until you have to break down setups in the deckel to use it as a drill press, which, you say it has never been used for, so why do you need it? It would be different if you used the deckel as a DP so much it interfered with milling.
Now its different if you want it because it is a nice machine and you're a tool whore, or just to good a deal to pass up, because it WILL be useful SOMEDAY :cheers:

Conrad Hoffman · Dec 20, 2019

Mill is set up to run something and you need to drill a hole. Need a drill press!

AlfaGTA · Dec 20, 2019

I think the biggest factor is space!
The most valuable thing in any shop is the shop itself and the space it provides.
Its the hardest thing to acquire and for most its never large enough.....

Having singular machines for each task is the best...is the most flexible and can give the best work flow!
This is the way real industries all set up their shops.
That machine is priced well and would be nice even if seldom needed/used.

But the real price here is the space it requires.....You know best how much room you can afford for such a tool, and if the space might be better used for some other machine
if one should become available, such as a surface grinder, tool and cutter grinder or perhaps a cylindrical grinder.

For me a drill press would be a tool i could pass on if my space was tight..I would rather have some machines that provided an additional process not done by the mill .Good work management looking ahead to needed processes can help mitigate the problem of overlapping work.

Of course if you have a 100,000 sq foot airplane hanger for a work space, perhaps none of this is germane. Not to mention that if you are doing structural steel work and making 1.5" holes in 20' "I" beams , the mill might not be the best choice to double as a drill press.
Its all a balancing job when all is said and done.

Cheers Ross

DennisCA · Dec 20, 2019

I believe I will take it if it's still available, because I can always sell it myself if I find I don't have use for it, or think it takes too much space.

I had arranged to go see it but he is not returning my calls so this might be another waste of everyones time on my part.

EDIT: Yes I have wasted everyones time. I had arranged for a friend of mine who lives nearby to check it out so it was running. He was loading it into someone elses car when he got there.

Mud · Dec 20, 2019

You need one, but not that big. I have 2 in storage because we need the floor space more than the DPs, but "might need one again someday" have a small step pulley DP on the floor we move around the shop and use a lot for deburring, countersinking, and occasional simple hole drilling

DennisCA · Dec 20, 2019

I'm not sure it takes up much more space than any other floor standing drill press, but some day I hope to have my own arboga drill press. I have a cheap chinese belt driven thing now so I have something in the drill press way, though it's barely adequate for wood.

lucky7 · Dec 20, 2019

Arboga’s of that generation have cheap plastic fiber gears. Prone to strip. Solbergas, or Alzmetals are much better. And yes, a reasonable sized drill press is mandatory for a small shop. Floor standing 3mt at minimum.

L7

Tfrench · Dec 20, 2019

I've got a grimston elektriska (english made, no idea where the elektriska came from)thats very similar to an arboga, which lives at home in my wood/tinkering shop and a oerlikon ub2 at work. Couldn't live without the drills, especially as I have to leave projects set up on the mill for long periods of time till I get time to complete! I have seen a benchtop arboga which looked a very useful sized machine...

rklopp · Dec 20, 2019

For me, the drill press is extremely useful equipped with a Tapmatic tapping head. I can bang out a pile of tapped holes many times faster than I could on any of my mills with quills. The quill feel is lighter on the drill press, too. My drill press has a vfd, which makes speed changes super-simple.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CalG · Dec 20, 2019

If a ten dollar tool can do the task, why use a $10,000 tool?

Is it because money is no object?

Ask a pro for additional advice.

thermite · Dec 20, 2019

DennisCA said:
He was loading it into someone elses car when he got there.

If he could get it into a "car"? No loss.

Not as if it was an Alzmettal, after all.

YouTube

DennisCA · Dec 21, 2019

lucky7 said:
Arboga’s of that generation have cheap plastic fiber gears. Prone to strip. Solbergas, or Alzmetals are much better. And yes, a reasonable sized drill press is mandatory for a small shop. Floor standing 3mt at minimum.

L7

I'm not sure about the universality of that, I've looked at other Arbogas of the 1960s and seen metal gears in them. A Solberga or a Strands would also be a nice addition if I ever came across one at a similarly good price. This was one 4MT.

Harri89 · Dec 22, 2019

I have seen Arboga drillpress with bakelite gears. If i remember right they were bakelite - steel pairs

thermite · Dec 22, 2019

Harri89 said:
I have seen Arboga drillpress with bakelite gears. If i remember right they were bakelite - steel pairs

General Motors pulled the same stunt, I-4 and I-6 and not-only. Figured if they failed at 70-90 thousand miles, the engine wuddn' live long enough to become a polluter.

Steel+shiney-wood off an earlier GMC mill solved the problem.

adammil1 · Dec 23, 2019

I spent a summer working in a CNC turning and screw machine shop that wad full of cheapo $100 Harbor freight drill presses and developed a great respect for what they can do. Some were set up with tapping heads and others with with drill chucks and deburring tools/ countersinks. Much faster to work that way than on the mill for quick secondary ops for preexisting holes. I copied that in my home shop. I have the Cincinnati toolmaster for my serious drilling and milling needs and a cheap home depot drill press I got for free via credit card points sitting right next to the mill for the quick secondary ops. I couldn't be happier with the arrangement.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

thermite · Dec 23, 2019

adammil1 said:
I have the Cincinnati toolmaster for my serious drilling and milling needs and a cheap home depot drill press I got for free via credit card points sitting right next to the mill for the quick secondary ops. I couldn't be happier with the arrangement.

Depends on what you are accustomed to, so yes, yah actually "could" be happier than with H-D goods.

Yah don't NEED the monster AB5/S I harbour. Neither did I actually. Milacron hadn't manipulated me into it for the Devilment of doing yoga exercises of his salemanship muscles, I wudda had a geared-head Clausing or a Scandihooligan instead - mebbe even a "Wolf".

...but still.... I have kept the little Walker-Turner that does 90%-plus of the actual work, and look to add an Adolph Muehlmatt/Hamilton sensitive.

Not as if they need any SPACE, so "for my next trick", there'll be one.. to be hauled out of its cabinet in Alzmetall's tenement house to use the AB5/S' massive adjustable table as if it were a variable-height workbench. Along with a few similar goodies otherwise unable to find a decent home.

Waste not, want not, when it comes to scarce space. Devil finds work for idle DP tables as well as idle hands, etc.

ome.machining · Dec 24, 2019

The old Strands, Arboga and so were equipped with metal to metal gears.
Later models were equipped with etronax/phenol gears running against a metal.
This was due to noise, but also as a break point.
Later models were again equipped with helical gears, and not straight gears. This reduced the gear noise allot.

Despite having both a Bridgeport and a Prvomajska alg100, I still have two drill presses.
A Strands S68 and a Arboga G2508.
I wouldn't be without the drill presses.
They are so fast to work on, and I like having multiple drills. Nice when you drill, countersinking and tapping. You don't need to change tool [emoji16]

Of course. Having the one drill for free, and the other very cheap helps allot [emoji4]

(the one on the lista are now exchanged with the one on the floor) this is basically brand new. [emoji16]

Colchester - The world turns on Colchester lathes.

thermite · Dec 24, 2019

rasmush said:
Colchester - The world turns on Colchester lathes.

Uhhh.. well.. "Serviceable". Honest-enough mediums. Most of the time, anyway. Surely no greater shortage of LESSER machines than BETTER ones.

But not to forget, "the world turns on" mad dogs easily as reliably, yah?

"Good Lathes Only" was far the safer bet to prove itself an understatement, not a brag.

Does having a deckel mean a drill press is superfluous?

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