Drive lugs on an FP2NC 40-taper spindle
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    Default Drive lugs on an FP2NC 40-taper spindle

    My FP2NC has lugs on the horizontal spindle but not the vertical. I like using them, not sure why the original owner removed them from the vertical spindle. All of my tooling fits the spindle with the lugs.

    Where can I get a pair of replacement lugs? Are they standard for 40 taper spindles?

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    One or two lugs? My machine has one full-size lug and one truncated tungsten heavy alloy lug on each spindle. The latter is flush with the spindle face.

    I made lugs for my Aciera F4. I used HY 130 ship hull plate that I had sitting around. I would use 4130 or 4340 pre-hard if I didn’t have HY 130.


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    The lugs are an important feature for CAT tooling as they index the holder- comes in handy for example on boring tools as they always index the same way, can't imagine why you would want to run without them.

    Franz Singer and FPS in Germany will have them. IIRC, the single, larger drive lug is made from "normal" steel (4140HT would probably be fine for this if you want to make one) and the shorter key on the "offset" is some kind of heavy metal to help balance things out.

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    Thanks, I will order some from Singer. I was hoping they were standard and more readily available. I ordered some gaskets and other parts from Singer a month ago and haven't received them yet, shipping is really slow everywhere. Any idea if the German term for lug is die Haltevorrichtung?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    Any idea if the German term for lug is die Haltevorrichtung?[/FONT]
    Just do yer best and parallel in English.

    Franz "& Co." will surely know English machinery terms - and "not only" - better than we know German ones!

    Anyone in Commerce pretty well HAS to do, "bad English" the global language of commerce as it is.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    I ordered some gaskets and other parts from Singer a month ago and haven't received them yet, shipping is really slow everywhere.
    The problem is that there is very little trans-atlantic air traffic these days. Normally packages get a cheap ride to fill up excess capacity in the cargo hold. But now packages are going by boat, which takes about a month (door to door) from Germany to the US.

    Any idea if the German term for lug is die Haltevorrichtung?
    Try Mitnehmerstein or Mitnehmer. In the same vein, the ring with two drive lugs is a Mitnehmerring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    The problem is that there is very little trans-atlantic air traffic these days. Normally packages get a cheap ride to fill up excess capacity in the cargo hold. But now packages are going by boat, which takes about a month (door to door) from Germany to the US.



    Try Mitnehmerstein or Mitnehmer. In the same vein, the ring with two drive lugs is a Mitnehmerring.
    Thanks Bruce, I will use that if there is any confusion with “lug”.

    We have the same problem with shipping in the US. I have a pair of packages in transit, stuck somewhere in the Midwest for nearly a month according to the tracking.

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    My shade tree solution to the machinery terms is that i take a photo or scan of the manual showing the part i need..circle it and send it along in my communications....
    Has worked fine for me over the years....

    Cheers Ross

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    After much back and forth, I finally got an invoice from Herr Singer. Still not convinced the parts are correct, please let me know what you think. The "heavy metal plate" is quite expensive

    img_0206.jpg


    Here is the photo I sent him:

    img_1008.jpg

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    I made new drive lugs from tool steel from an old shaper chisel, hardens great.
    Edit: counterbalancing piece is probably made from carbide, doesn't feel heavy enough for tungsten, just went out for a look. Or perhaps it's tungsten? Not sure now, I noticed some scratches and dents in it, would be quite difficult to scratch or dents tungsten carbide.

    Next to it are my DIY drive lugs and some "bump prevention" pieces for spindle regrinding, so that the grinding bit doesn't bump and jump over the drive lug holes.
    dsc_0449.jpgdsc_0450.jpgdsc_0447.jpg
    Price for that piece of tungsten/carbide or whatever mystery metal is crazy though ;-)

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    Dave:
    Just purchase two of the standard drive keys.....
    Guessing that the keys are the short ones so they will fit the cat holder..at any rate install both so the weight is balanced.
    Mark one with paint to designate the orientation....

    If the keys are supplied as the long one, then shorten one on the inside and one on the outside to match their weights....Ether way you don't really need that "Moon Metal" filler.
    When my FP4NC came from Germany (was not US delivery originally) the keys were both long and the CAT holders would not work.....Shortened one to allow the holders to fit (one way)
    and never looked back. Both my spindles have two keys...nary a problem.

    Cheers Ross

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    They should be very easy to fabricate your own Drive lugs on an FP2NC 40-taper spindle
    I've made several. Material shouldn't be super critical as the taper should take the most of the force Drive lugs on an FP2NC 40-taper spindle
    Also any of thise mill will hardly be used for heavy milling or anything that should make the keys under pressure. Drive lugs on an FP2NC 40-taper spindle

    Maybe I'm wrong. But never noticed any failures or so Drive lugs on an FP2NC 40-taper spindle

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    The "Platte Schwermetall" is a bit weird. What did you ask for?

    Making your own drive keys does seem pretty straightforward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    The "Platte Schwermetall" is a bit weird. What did you ask for?

    Making your own drive keys does seem pretty straightforward.
    I asked for a pair of drive lugs, then sent the translation as you recommended (Mitnehmerstein), when they did not understand, then sent them the photo when they still did not understand.

    I agree, making them seems pretty straight forward, especially now that I see the price. I'm also surprised that Deckel used a tungsten alloy to make the short lug, rather than making it thicker. Either way the weight would be balanced.

    Also, ordering from Singer is problematic these days. I ordered some parts two months ago that still have not arrived, due to delays in shipping caused by the pandemic.

    Thanks for the suggestions.

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    I pulled the pair of lugs on the horizontal spindle, intending to copy them. However, they are not made from different alloys, and the notch appears to have been milled, not ground. Maybe someone swapped the heavy lugs from both spindles out?

    Dimensions: 16.10 x 15.90 x 16mm (both about the same)
    Weight: 523g, 492g

    The notch is 5 x 2mm

    img_1021.jpg


    img_1022.jpg

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    Think the machines running the BT tooling can use balanced (same length) drive lugs.....
    My FP4NC came to me directly from Germany and had two equal sized drive lugs on both spindles.....
    Think the heavy lug was a later change, making the spindles universal so to speak....
    Modified mine similar to that you show...been run that way since 93'
    Cheers Ross

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    That is how I made the replacements, so both spindles have about 30g (1 oz) of imbalance. If I had a 10,000 RPM spindle it might make a difference, but this machine has a top rpm of 3150, which is pretty noisy so I seldom use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    That is how I made the replacements, so both spindles have about 30g (1 oz) of imbalance. If I had a 10,000 RPM spindle it might make a difference, but this machine has a top rpm of 3150, which is pretty noisy so I seldom use it.
    How is it running the horizontal spindle at 3150? Mine sounds sweet like a Hardinge lathe. On the other hand, when the spindle decelerates while braking, it sounds like the same bucket of bolts as when running with the vertical head. The gear tooth faces in the forward direction in vertical mode are quite worn, while the faces in the forward direction in horizontal mode (which is the backward direction in vertical mode) are in great shape. I like horizontal mode more and more - less need for ear muffs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rklopp View Post
    How is it running the horizontal spindle at 3150? Mine sounds sweet like a Hardinge lathe. On the other hand, when the spindle decelerates while braking, it sounds like the same bucket of bolts as when running with the vertical head. The gear tooth faces in the forward direction in vertical mode are quite worn, while the faces in the forward direction in horizontal mode (which is the backward direction in vertical mode) are in great shape. I like horizontal mode more and more - less need for ear muffs.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I haven't tried 3150 in horizontal. I need to cut a circular t-slot (making a base for a Hilma vise), so I will be using horizontal for that and I will let you know. I don't think this machine has a lot of gear wear. The noise is high pitched and just sounds like the machine is winding up a lot higher than 3150. By comparison 2500 sounds like your reference, a Hardinge lathe. I get gear noise in low rpms like 200-400, when I have an interrupted cut, or a face mill that is not aligned perfectly.

    I also am using horizontal a lot more. I just bought a 10x12x9 angle plate to use as a "table" in horizontal mode, for the job mentioned above.

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    May I ask why you are so 'afraid' of having the lugs/keys on the spindle?

    In my world, it doesn't matter. As long as there are two. And also beacuse the spindle speeds are relatively low, and the keys/mass are close to the center?

    Close to all mills have thise from the factory, and it's not a problem for them? Drive lugs on an FP2NC 40-taper spindle



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