Early Schaublin 13 value?
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  1. #1
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    Default Early Schaublin 13 value?

    Hello everybody,

    I've been looking for a small mill for a while now, particularly of the Deckel style, and this Schaublin 13 came up near-ish to me. These mills are a unfamiliar to me, and despite reading all the threads I could find, actual numbers for prices are hard to find especially for the slightly more used examples.

    Anyway here's the mill, seller is asking $2500. It looks like an older model, but it comes with the high speed milling head, and some collets as well. Seller says its wired for 3 phase 440V, which is problematic, but manageable. Hard to tell what the condition is really like under the dust and what is hopefully light surface rust. What do ya'll think a fair price is for something like this?

    Also while I'm posting, is the high speed head capable of any serious milling, or is it meant mostly for drilling? I've heard a bit of both here.

    Thanks for the help!

    schuablin13.jpg

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    If that S-13 was within driving distance to me, it would already be in my shop. Subtle enough?

    L7

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    That looks OK for the asking price. It's got a vertical quill, which is a big help on a small mill like that.

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    Thanks for the responses they are really helpful. If I do end up getting this what do you think the chances are I'll be able to re-wire the motors for 220V? I've gotten my head wrapped around dealing with 3 phase, but getting a transformer and a VFD/RPC will be complicated, and expensive.

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    Transformer will be cheaper than rewiring the motors. Motors could be dual voltage in which case you just need to reset some terminals at the motor connection.
    Unfamiliar with the motor details, prehaps you could just purchase a single phase replacement at teh correct voltage. (would not be mu first choice, single phase motors will make the
    surface finish less than optimal if that matters.
    Cheers Ross

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    I'm not familiar with the S-13, but I went through the same issue with a Maho (575V). I went with a 3 phase transformer plugged into an RPC. It worked great, and when a couple other 575-3P machines came along, it made the decision easy. I have since changed the RPC to a PhasePerfect - the system works very well. Forget reworking all the electrics, put your $$ and effort into building a good electrical system and then you'll have room to grow. The power issues tend to scare folks away, so that improves the price - really the power is not very difficult to solve.

    $2500 for the machine? That sounds pretty good - if it has a little tooling with it, then it is quite a good price. I paid $3700 for my first Maho MH 600, it had lost of attachments and decent tooling (shipping extra). I paid $2500CAD (including shipping) for the second Maho MH 600 (same size as the Deckel FP1, probably comparable to the S-13) - it had 4 attachments, nothing for tooling. At $2500US I'd say you really can't go wrong. With another $2500, and careful shopping, you'll have power, basic tooling and a much better machine than any other $5000 spend you can think of.

    Remember this is a small machine, make sure the work envelope works for you. I like the little Maho, but it really is a small machine (I've a two larger mills now, they all get used from time to time).

    Let us know how you make out. David

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    I have two Aciera mills that started life as 575-V Canadian-market machines. I swapped out the spindle and feed motors on the F4 for 240-V 3-ph motors and VFDs. That was a huge effort due to special flange on one and space issues on the other. For the F5 I kept everything original and built a 240–575-V 3-ph transformer bank. The latter setup was much quicker and easier to pull off.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    +1 on the PP......If this is a serious hobby or vocation better to get the power under control and simplified form the onset.
    Rotary's , phase converters and VFD's are the realm of dabblers...make the leap if you are going to continue in the real machinery world.... opens the window of machines for future
    use and expansion. Removes the question of power once and for ever.....Piddle about or make the jump. It will define the future.

    Cheers Ross

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    There was a second generation 13 local to me on FB Marketplace two months ago. Was advertised on a Monday night by a younger car guy wheeler dealer, I messaged following day saying I was free to go in on Saturday and look it over with cash on hand. Asked if it was ok and replied it ran fine ( yeah sure ) Had surface rust all over from sitting in what looked like a car garage facility and it wasn't powered up just there sitting in the way up on wooden blocs, so it felt sketchy but worth a look due to asking price : $1000 Was sold next day and I never head about it again. Kicked myself for weeks after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky7 View Post
    If that S-13 was within driving distance to me, it would already be in my shop. Subtle enough?

    L7
    Yeah, no kidding!

    That green porch paint will likely scrub right off, since half of it fell off already. The factory paint is like to actually be pretty decent under all that dreck.

    Got to run one that had pretty much 'the whole set' of goodies with it, that had been donated out of a Pratt and Whitney engine plant toolroom, to the Tech School I was at at the time. Almost made me cry when I saw what they sell for, back then...

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    2500 seems like a good price for an S13. I've seen them go for 2500-3500 in Sweden.

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    Well, I got the mill, its a lot smaller than I had thought, but that is more than fine by me. Thanks so much to everybody for the information and the help.

    To round out a few details, it is in fact 220V power, not 440V as the seller had said, so that's one headache avoided. It is 3 phase though, but it came with a new unused 3 hp PhaseAmatic, so it should be ready to run as soon as I stretch a 220V line to the garage. It also came with some accessories including 2 sets of collets.

    It looks like my machine originally worked for Raytheon, and it is #535.

    20200508_221135.jpg20200508_221158.jpg20200508_220955.jpg20200508_221013.jpg

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    Congratulations! The machine should clean up nicely, please post some photos as you do that.

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    Nice! The collet set is a good thing to have, because it would not be easy to find by itself. Get yourself a better milling vise when you get a chance. Probably a 4" Kurt or dare I say, Shars premium 4" would fit nicely. I see that the machine was made before they invented years ;-), so you'll have to reverse-engineer the serial number to figure out how old it is.

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    Would anybody happen to know where I can get a manual for this machine? I'm especially concerned with the wiring instructions.

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    Lathes UK? I got a nice manual for a rambaudi mill from him, great resource.
    Edit: Here is the link:
    Schaublin | store.lathes.co.uk
    Be sure to look around on the site, lots of info on the machine should be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MillersFalls View Post
    Would anybody happen to know where I can get a manual for this machine?
    https://onedrive.live.com/?id=547FE2...7FE296ECFD561F

    Schaublin 13 Milling Machine - Anglo-Swiss Tools

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    Awesome, that one drive link in particular has lots of good stuff, thanks for sharing.

    How far do you all normally, or would recommend tearing down and cleaning an older machine like this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MillersFalls View Post
    How far do you all normally, or would recommend tearing down and cleaning an older machine like this?
    Not surprisingly, it depends. If it were up to me, I'd take it quite far apart to clean all the old grime off the slideways and make sure any lube passages are clear. At an absolute minimum, I'd service the horizontal and vertical spindle grease unless I knew for a fact that a competent person had done it within, say 3 years, of my acquisition. I probably would only drain and flush the feed and main gearboxes unless nastiness came out when I did the flush or there were disconcerting noises when I ran it after flushing. I'd pump all waylube points until the exuding way oil flowed clean.

    The drawings at the onedrive link mark the points requiring grease quite clearly with circles at the callouts. For example, the vertical head, including the bevel gearing and all bearings, are to be lubed with Kluber LDS 18 Special A. Nowadays, I'd use Kluber NBU15. The horizontal spindle bearings receive the same. It looks like the Y feed thrust bearings may need the Kluber.

    Servicing the spindles is finicky work. Cleanliness is extremely important. You may find you need a decent range of hook and pin spanners. Metric Allen keys, for sure.

    I would try to find someone who has serviced one of these previously. The oldswissmachines groups.io site would be an excellent resource.

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