Fehlmann Picomax 50 photos - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    it came from an auction, and they have a policy not to disclose sellers contact information, and I don't want to bother them asking to go over there and measure it, since they included some dimensions of the machine, but they look suspiciously identical to other picomax 51 cnc ad info on the web, so I didn't trust them

    anyway, I dug up a users manual on the interwebs for a Picomax 50 (can't attach it here on the forum since it allows only max 19,5kb for a pdf file, and the manual is 2,77Mb), it has a page with dimensions, and since 51 CNC is basically the same machine with added NC, it wasn't too difficult to get a general idea of the footprint: base machine 2m*1,4m and 1m*0,8m for the control cabinet

    capture.jpg

    edit: google drive link in case anyone is interested in the manual - Fehlmann Picomax 5 Manual (German).pdf - Google Drive

    p.s. I blame Milacron and this thread for the purchase I was bidding on another lot in that auction (Caz HBX 360), and when it went over my limit, I saw this thing and it had no bids on it, so I took it for a starter price
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture.jpg  

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jz79 View Post
    p.s. I blame Milacron and this thread for the purchase I was bidding on another lot in that auction (Caz HBX 360), and when it went over my limit, I saw this thing and it had no bids on it, so I took it for a starter price
    LOL... yeah, kinda like NC Deckels, even though they cost way more new than the manual counterparts, they are worth way less now than the manual versions of similar vintage (i.e. 1980's machines) due to ancient controls. Looking at Euro dealer sites over the years the P51 seems more common than the P50 to find for sale....I suspect most P50 owners hang on to them forever, and most P51 owners don't mind seeing them go.

    Of some humor, I figured the other day, not counting travel time, gas, hotel.... I paid negative 6000 USD for my P50.... bought it for about 1500*, sold for ten times that much and bought it back for $7,500 !

    =================================

    *1375 plus 10% auction buyer rip

  3. #63
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    those older NCs were half analogue (motor drivers), and with little amount of info available, the repairs on the NC side of the machine take long time and/or relatively big $$$, so a manual machine makes a lot more sense to most people

    me, being quite familiar with electronics and all sorts of automated controls, I want to see how it is put together, get the control in a working state, see the logic behind more complicated actions, and if the mechanical side of the machine is sound, then perhaps retrofit it with a more modern control

    I bought it because of curiosity mostly (the price delivered will be around 3k eur), I don't really need it to make parts right away, I have machines in place already for that, but if this turns out to be good, it will probably displace one of the larger asian mill/drills I have here, the only downside is the SF32 tooling, the asian machine it would replace I specifically ordered with iso40 spindle to share tooling with the Mikron WF41 I also have, Mikron uses SK40, but removing and putting back a pull stud still makes more sense to me than getting a completely different set of tool holders

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    LOL... yeah, kinda like NC Deckels, even though they cost way more new than the manual counterparts, they are worth way less now than the manual versions of similar vintage (i.e. 1980's machines) due to ancient controls. Looking at Euro dealer sites over the years the P51 seems more common than the P50 to find for sale....I suspect most P50 owners hang on to them forever, and most P51 owners don't mind seeing them go.

    Of some humor, I figured the other day, not counting travel time, gas, hotel.... I paid negative 6000 USD for my P50.... bought it for about 1500*, sold for ten times that much and bought it back for $7,500 !

    =================================

    *1375 plus 10% auction buyer rip
    What I have found though is if the Deckel is running it makes a good manual machine disregard of the antiquated control. With the hand pendant and rapids you can work at quite a rapid pace with no need for cranking a heavy table around... the repair side of things is a different story. Overall they are a good value. I paid 3500 for my manual Elliot mill, and I paid more for moving my two NC Deckels than I did for the machines themselves.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by legoboy View Post
    What I have found though is if the Deckel is running it makes a good manual machine disregard of the antiquated control. .
    "if the Deckel is running" is the key issue however.... one bad capacitor (or worse, one bad IC) and the whole game comes to an end. The manual machines you don't have to cringe a bit every time you turn one on.... like I did with my Dialog 11 machine especially.

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    I would love to comment about this, but think i will keep quiet for fear of provoking the sleeping ancient control gremlins....
    Cheers Ross

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    I would love to comment about this, but think i will keep quiet for fear of provoking the sleeping ancient control gremlins....
    Cheers Ross
    You make a good point Ross...knock on wood

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jz79 View Post
    removing and putting back a pull stud still makes more sense to me than getting a completely different set of tool holders
    Generally speaking I'd say yes but OTOH, quick tool change is what really makes the Fehlmann special over more ordinary mill-drills to me.

    Quality is not arguable but general layout and precision are nothing to write home about...

    What you don't see anywhere else -except on Aciera- is the quick tool change. That feature comes at a price.

    May be that comment may apply better to manual machines though ?

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  11. #69
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    I reread what I wrote and it may sound like I was criticizing the SF32 system, nono, that wasn't what I meant, I see all the advantages of it, and it will be ideal for what I would do on this machine, one-offs or small batches of prototype parts, light milling on aluminum 99% of time, drill holes, tap, etc

    the drawback I had in mind is the financial kind meaning - I need to buy new tooling that will be exclusive to this machine and I can't use it on anything else - I work alone, so the tool holders usually come with me to the machine I'm currently working on, and this will require a separate set...

    I quietly hope that one of those desk drawers has at least a couple to get me started on it, well, I'll know in couple weeks or so

  12. #70
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    I understand the financial problem very well.
    My comment was just to emphasyse the benefit of the SF32 system...if that can somewhat ease the pain of having to invest in new tooling.


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