For the few who might be curious what Positip 880 DRO looks like w/ more than 4 axis
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  1. #1
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    Default For the few who might be curious what Positip 880 DRO looks like w/ more than 4 axis

    Here's what the screen looks like with 4 axis. Fills it out, huge number sizes and each of the 4 orange tipped buttons corresponds to the axis to the left of it.

    positip3.jpg

    This on late Deckel FP2 w/C axis being the rotary table of the universal table. Just got in a NOS 9000 line count rotary encoder I plan to install to read the front to back tilt angle of the universal table.... so I programmed the display for 5 axis....

    positip2.jpg

    FWIW, I chose "W" for the tilt identity but could have used most any unused letter, like "T"...but T sounds too much like "tool" rather than "tilt", thus the W. The slight surprise is all the blank blue space. Numbers are still plenty large and clear to read. But I wondered, since there are only 4 orange buttons, how do you set a number on axis 5 ? The answer is below...you simply touch the lowest orange button and then scroll down to W and enter whatever number you desire.

    positip1.jpg

    Now, does anyone care ? Probably not....but I thought it interesting. Of course now I'm irrevocably committed to installing an Axis 6 to fill out that pesky blue blank area.... horizontal quill is the prime candidate.

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    Nice that it can do that (6 axis) ...personally prefer the straight up "4" display, where entering a value takes fewer key strokes, and the numbers are larger....
    Will be interested in the finished product, although doubt if i will ever go the 880 route....My 4 axis 855 is just fine for me.
    Cheers Ross

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    Why not "A" for the axis identity? It's the letter that Deckel uses for the corresponding axis.

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    Normally axis names are assigned using the "right hand rule". So you have X, Y, Z linear axes. Then A, B, C rotary axes with the axis pointing in the directions of the respective axis. Then you have U, V, W for other axes parallel to the respective axis.

    Like a lathe with live tooling would have a C axis since it is inline with the Z axis. Or an HMC would have a B axis which is inline with the Y. A boring mill would have a W axis for the quill which is inline with the Z.

    It gets more complex on 5 axis machines where one rotary axis swivels on another rotary axis like a one a trunion setup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zephyrous View Post
    Why not "A" for the axis identity? It's the letter that Deckel uses for the corresponding axis.
    To be honest I never noticed that Deckel gave letters for universal table axis identity but just looked in the manual and you are right....ok, will change it to A

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post

    It gets more complex on 5 axis machines where one rotary axis swivels on another rotary axis like a one a trunion setup.
    Yep...I have two Brother 5 axis centers where A is rotary table and B is the trunion angle. I guess that is part of why I resisted designating this one as "A"....but if Deckel history deems it so, it shall have to be !

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    Very nice, all vertical CNC mills use A as 4th

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    Labeling the as the "A" is correct for that machine and i would go that way so long as you can still have the "C" as the first axis below the last linear axis.....ie, X, Y ,Z, C and lastly A.....
    Assume that the 880 allows any order to the axis assignments.
    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaszub View Post
    Very nice, all vertical CNC mills use A as 4th
    Well not exactly......Deckel (FP-NC's) call their 4th axis the "C" ......And they treat their machine as a vertical even though they have two spindles....
    Cheers Ross

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    Is it possible with the 880 to change the angular readout on the fly...I mean can you go from degrees, minutes and seconds, to decimal degrees without going into the parameters?

    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Well not exactly......Deckel (FP-NC's) call their 4th axis the "C" ......And they treat their machine as a vertical even though they have two spindles....
    Cheers Ross
    Guess it must be Japanese thing.
    C letter axis designation is used on lathes.
    B letter axis is used on horizontals.
    This is as far I can remember.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Is it possible with the 880 to change the angular readout on the fly...I mean can you go from degrees, minutes and seconds, to decimal degrees without going into the parameters?
    No....at first I thought you could but all you can do "on the fly" is change the resolution....but it still displays in degrees/min/sec only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Labeling the as the "A" is correct for that machine and i would go that way so long as you can still have the "C" as the first axis below the last linear axis.....ie, X, Y ,Z, C and lastly A.....
    Assume that the 880 allows any order to the axis assignments.
    Yes, any order....and with a few clicks I can change the screen back to 4 axis display, while keeping in memory the parameters (letter designation, line counts, etc) for the axis 5 angle encoder to easily bring it back on the screen if needed just by turning axis 5 from off to "on" in the "jobs" page.

    So if using axis 5 or 6 is pretty rare, you can go back to full page large number 4 axis display for one's everyday use and save the smaller number blank blue space display for blue moon use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaszub View Post
    Very nice, all vertical CNC mills use A as 4th
    Deckel designates the universal table rotary as C axis in the manual. But then you are more likely thinking in terms of a VMC or mill with a 4th axis at 90 degrees orientation to the table. I once owned a late D11 control Deckel FP2A that had just that...a Walker true (i.e. not just an indexer) 4th axis attachment that mounted on the standard table that rotated 90 degree to the table surface. But that also was designated as C axis on the Dialog 11 control.


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    If a rotary table were installed on an NCT or Universal Table (designated as 'C" on the FP4NC machines)-what would be the proper nomenclature? "W"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colt45 View Post
    If a rotary table were installed on an NCT or Universal Table (designated as 'C" on the FP4NC machines)-what would be the proper nomenclature? "W"?
    Re "W" I had a Spinner (German) dual turret, all stations live, with Y axis and sub spindle turning center once that totaled up to 8 axis, one of which was "W".....so just entered that on a whim...the Positip 880 allows one to choose almost any letter in the alphabet for an axis... although some manual lathes that have a mini scale on the compound I think designate the axis as X2.

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    I would like to see how all the scales are mounted and benefits of the Heidenhain scales vs others. Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by beckerkumm View Post
    I would like to see how all the scales are mounted and benefits of the Heidenhain scales vs others. Dave
    That is a strange question...mounted on what ? In this case it is a manual Deckel mill model FP2 where all the linear scales were mounted at the factory and the C axis angular encoder is a special hollow design that is not so much "mounted" as it is an integral part of the universal rotary table design.

    The X scale is actually hidden inside the X slide enclosure. The Z and Y are in the usual places outside. This W encoder, soon to be changed to A, will be mounted at the pivot point of the table forward and backwards tilt. It will probably be the first of it's kind ever done. Which is no great accomplishment....pretty simple really......it's just that it took this many years for $3,000 angle encoders to get cheap enough on eBay to justify installing one for such a "nice to have" but generally unnecessary purpose.

    fullsizerender-32.jpg

    Here is the machine...but the Y and Z scales are visible on the other side, of which I have no good photo right now. The armored cable coming down from the universal table is for the C axis encoder. When I get around to mounting the A encoder on the universal table I will post photos.

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    Probably not the only strange question I'll have. I have rehabbed and own about 50 woodworking machines but am only starting to get into the metal working side. Not familiar at all with the Deckel and assumed you mounted an aftermarket Heidenhain to the machine. I'm looking for ideas to mount a dro on a Rambaudi. dro on woodworking machines are pretty simple in comparison. Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by beckerkumm View Post
    Probably not the only strange question I'll have. I have rehabbed and own about 50 woodworking machines but am only starting to get into the metal working side. Not familiar at all with the Deckel and assumed you mounted an aftermarket Heidenhain to the machine. I'm looking for ideas to mount a dro on a Rambaudi. dro on woodworking machines are pretty simple in comparison.
    Below are photos showing the scale side of the Deckel.

    deckel-scale1.jpg

    Crap, another sideways photo...rotate it forward 90 degrees in your mind....

    deckel-scale2.jpg

    Sideways again...closeup of Z reader head mount

    deckel-scale5.jpg

    Ah... proper orientation... Y axis head mount...a bit more elaborate...

    deckel-scale3.jpg

    X axis scale is a "slim" style and hidden behind the bellows. Access for install and removal via the vertical rectangular plate near the hand wheel.


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