Finally, Alexander master toolmaker follow me home

Hello Everyone

Finally, i bought Alexander master toolmaker (serial number 1015) and will be my next restoration.
Anyone here own Alexander products too?
If you have, i really want to see the pictures of it,serial number?

Been 5-7 years i'm collecting decent machines for my small workshop plan (upgraded from chinese lathe), right now i have Weiler primus lathe, Myford ML8 (under restoration), Meddings pillar drill, Alexander master toolmaker (next restoration), Emco, Unimat, and a lot of other tools.

About Alexander master toolmaker, i will do start restoration process in the next 2-3 mnths, I have several question about this milling :
{How to know manufacturing date on Alexander ?.}
{What does this mean PG/1.M.20.P.A on GHA badge? it's the same badge with serial number info.}
{Is this imperial ? rather than metric from deckel FP1, what is the pitch of 4 feet screws that hold the machine.}
{Anyone know more history information of it? i know Alexander was Deckel dealer in UK, do they produce under deckel license?}

I got Alexander manual from this site :
George H. Alexander - Publication Reprints - Master Toolmaker | VintageMachinery.org
it's 29 pages, Has anyone own other manual version? would lovely to know it.

















This 1934 brochure shown that Alexander still use deckel badge on it


This 1946 brochure shown that their own badge (GHA)


This 1950


Alexander was Deckel dealer in UK even for very early model


credit, got old pictures from this site :
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/George_H._Alexander_Machinery
and from lathes.co.uk

regards

Congrats.

Well, I scanned an old 1938 FP1 manual. You can have a link.
It has lots of great pictures that really show off the possibilities of work clamping.

Dropbox - OldFP1.pdf

Oh...You got a Weiler Primus also:

Dropbox - WeilerPrimusManualDE.rar

Unfortunately this is scanned pages packed in the *.rar format. You'll have to unzip it yourself.

Cheers
Erik

Hi Deckeleers,

Regarding the script on the nameplate, I would guess the the "20 PA" part refers to the pressure angle of the gears.

If you wish to use FP1 heads on your machine you will have to change the drive gear on them from 14.5 PA to 20 PA ones, happily these can be sourced quite cheaply from HPC gears in the UK.

You have a lot of work in front of you to bring this machine back into working condition, Good Luck.

Alan

Erik said:

Congrats.

Well, I scanned an old 1938 FP1 manual. You can have a link.
It has lots of great pictures that really show off the possibilities of work clamping.

Dropbox - OldFP1.pdf

Oh...You got a Weiler Primus also:

Dropbox - WeilerPrimusManualDE.rar

Unfortunately this is scanned pages packed in the *.rar format. You'll have to unzip it yourself.

Cheers
Erik

Click to expand...

Thank you Erik
You can read my mind for sure, I have been looking for early (1930s) deckel FP1 manual, since it's same as Alexander. About Weiler, Look like you forget that i do message you about november 2018 for Weiler manual

I even plan to order Deckel FP1 1:12 plastic model to study the anatomy of Deckel.
The plastic model was early Deckel FP1 version.

https://www.amazon.com/Deckel-Milling-machine-Plastic-model/dp/B003HC8DYI

bentley1930 said:

Hi Deckeleers,

Regarding the script on the nameplate, I would guess the the "20 PA" part refers to the pressure angle of the gears.

If you wish to use FP1 heads on your machine you will have to change the drive gear on them from 14.5 PA to 20 PA ones, happily these can be sourced quite cheaply from HPC gears in the UK.

You have a lot of work in front of you to bring this machine back into working condition, Good Luck.

Alan

Click to expand...

that make sense,
I though that it's for bevel gear only, so that's for all gear.

Dont know if 20 degree is act as improvement or not.

thanks for that information

Alexander were the Decke agents in the UK and it seems that with the outbreak of war in 1939 they continued to make machines using Deckel spares and UK made parts to the Deckel drawings.
You are OK with Deckel FP1 manuals but for the vertical head that has some differences particularly with the bearings.
You will need a set of feed gears which you can make on the machine itself, if you need help, pm me.

Peter Colman said:

Alexander were the Decke agents in the UK and it seems that with the outbreak of war in 1939 they continued to make machines using Deckel spares and UK made parts to the Deckel drawings.
You are OK with Deckel FP1 manuals but for the vertical head that has some differences particularly with the bearings.
You will need a set of feed gears which you can make on the machine itself, if you need help, pm me.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that information, that's make sense.
I read from one of thread about rebuilding an old FP1, and sold with Alexander badge on it.
Rebuilding an old Deckel FP1

do you have alexander master toolmaker too?

alihureiby said:

Thanks for that information, that's make sense.
I read from one of thread about rebuilding an old FP1, and sold with Alexander badge on it.
Rebuilding an old Deckel FP1

do you have alexander master toolmaker too?

Click to expand...

Hi Deckeleers,

The Thread that is highlighted on this post "rebuilding an old Deckel FP1" is interesting because it illustrated what i`ve been saying for years! That is, some forum members are suggesting or carrying out work on their Deckels that is beyond their personal expertise.

The person that initiated the thread jbentley a good example of a very enthusiastic FP1 owner with good intentions, dismantled his machine and started to scrape the slideways illustrating his progress with excellent photos and description. This was enthusiastically followed by forum members including a couple of the superstars lavishing "likes" on his posts.

I did not want to clutter up the thread with my comments but I could see that the methodology was not as it should be and reluctantly posted my comments in order to put the MO back into line with how it should be done. My reason for this was that incorrect information should not be allowed to remain on the database and be resurrected as gospel later on, as has happened in this case!

Then one of the superstars suggested that this thread be checked out by the resident forum scraping king and this is what happened.

The scraping king mostly agreed with my comments and was scathing about the comments of the superstar. So don`t take everything that is posted on this forum as being written in stone.

I recommend that you read through this thread again to see exactly what I mean.

Alan

I've visited jbentley in London, and his FP1 is essentially finished. He has a wonderful collection of machines that he's built and restored, and his FP1 is now scraped to within a gnat's eyelash of perfection. He is neither inexperienced nor untrained. But you are right that he was put off this forum by the criticism and vitriol directed in his direction. Too bad, because he does very nice work.

ballen said:

I've visited jbentley in London, and his FP1 is essentially finished. He has a wonderful collection of machines that he's built and restored, and his FP1 is now scraped to within a gnat's eyelash of perfection. He is neither inexperienced nor untrained. But you are right that he was put off this forum by the criticism and vitriol directed in his direction. Too bad, because he does very nice work.

Click to expand...

Hi Deckeleers,

Bruce, There is a lot of interest in scraping but amateurs tend think that all you have to do is to buy a scraper and attack the slideways. However as I explained on that thread, specialist knowledge and equipment are necessary to carry out a proper scraping job. I know this because I was trained to scrape machines during my apprenticeship and had all the coaching and proper equipment necessary to do this. How many people that contribute to the forum can say that? Why did it fall on my shoulders to try to correct the MO? Surely there were others that could have done this instead of bragging about how many ppi they could get with a motorized scraper!

In many cases scraping is not strictly necessary for a second hand work or hobby machine, this depends on the accuracy required for the work that will be done on it. A complete beginner would not be advised to tackle this, better to get to know their machine and compensate in other ways for any inaccuracy that may be there.

I did not throw any vitriol at jbentley, as said in my post I appreciated his enthusiasm and just tried to put the thread in order so that inexperienced forum members would not learn the incorrect way to scrape. Perhaps some light vitriol was thrown at others but they deserved it by making claims that were not correct.

As agreed with the forum superscraper, jbentley was going about the scraping in the wrong fashion and it was necessary, for the sake of getting it right, to make this clear to the forum. Do you think that this was the wrong thing to do?

Incidentally, jbentley did contact me to invite me to his workshop when I said that I was travelling to the UK but unfortunately I did not have the opportunity to visit him that time.

Alan