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Thread: FP 1 Dismantle

  1. #21
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    Tnx for the manual Erik, I have the same scan probaby was also from you or I found it somewhere in the forum.

    There was some surface rust on the ways but the rest seemed fine, most of the sealed surfaces was soaked in oil. I did not want to force it out and there is not much leverage space either so I'll give it another try. or I'll soak it in kerosene for a while to see if it helps.

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    If the gear is not hardened you can drill and tap 2 holes(M8?) beside the shaft at180dgr
    Close to the hole at best too
    Then make a puller
    Just a piece of bar with 2holes for the bolts that go in the tapped holes and in the middle a tapped hole to push the shaft out

    Peter

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    If the gear is not hardened you can drill and tap 2 holes(M8?) beside the shaft at180dgr
    Close to the hole at best too
    Then make a puller
    Just a piece of bar with 2holes for the bolts that go in the tapped holes and in the middle a tapped hole to push the shaft out

    Peter
    You mean something like on brake rotor of the cars I believe?, if it comes to that I think I'll follow as you suggested.

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    Poyo:

    Your gear is obviously stuck...time and corrosion i suspect, or worse...a fretted key or shaft from running without the retaining nut...
    At any rate , you need to remove that gear.

    Pretty sure that gear is hard likely.case hardened, but difficult to drill and tap as installed....
    I would fabricate two or three wedges,,,something simple say aluminum 15 or 20 mm wide, cut tapered down to a point on the band saw....

    Tap them in between the head casting and the back of the gear...if using two, place them opposite ( @180*) ...tap them in with small increments keeping the amount of wedge the same between the two .

    Be mindful of the bearing retaining plate behind the gear and don't force the wedges into that plate...If the wedges get too deep, shorten them and continue....
    Good luck...
    Cheers Ross

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    Ross, I like your wedge idea. Personally I would do this with hardwood wood (oak or maple) rather than aluminium. I think it deforms better to spread the load, but still generates lots of pressure. Cheers, Bruce

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    Downside on the wedge idea is, if you really get up on them, it could crack the casting behind them.

    Gedanken experiment: once the gear is off, what keeps the shaft its riding on, from passing in through the other side of the casting (bearing layout, cannot see from the cross section diagram)?

    If there's any in/out motion in the shaft, could one fabricate a spacer(s) to put behind the gear - large area spacer - and simply press on the front of the threaded shaft with a small hammer, large hammer, or a press?

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    Wedge idea sounds safer but I doubt there is enough space between the casting and the gear ti push them, but I'll still give it a try, I have lots of oak cutoffs laying around. I'll also check how hard is the gear.

    There's no access on the other side, very tight space already tried to push the shaft out with a pry bar no help. Hopefully will have some time to try during the weekend. If wifey let's me.

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    Also finished the design and printing of splash guard,I'll do a test fit, if its alright, will be sent for casting.

    img_20210802_085653.jpg
    img_20210802_085705.jpgimg_20210802_085657.jpg

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    Poyo, some good suggestions provided on removing the bevel gear, but I'm wondering if it's been Loctite (or European equivalent) on at some point, maybe a short but quick heating of the gear to around 180 deg C maybe an option. At least on mine the drive shaft came out the front, the input gear at the rear of the shaft is held on by a nut with locking washer and keyway, to get at this there should be an aluminium plug on the rear of the casting, mine was well hidden by paint, to get it out required tapping a 6mm hole into it and using a puller to remove. A tube spanner to get the nut off, but also possible (with a few swear words) by a C spanner from near the splash guard. One photo shows all that's on that shaft when removed. Good luck with it. Alan.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails head1.jpg   head2.jpg   head3.jpg  

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    Poyo:
    No reason that the gear guard has to be metal....Does not touch anything other than oil....
    Heating the gear is a good idea no matter which method of removal you attempt....
    getting it hot might break down any anaerobic sealers that may have been applied. But if looking for fit easing, the heat has to he hot and fast to give any advantage....a propane torch won't do....need a fair sized tip with an oxy acetylene rig....

    Cheers Ross

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    Do not heat it up too much if it is (case) hardened Too hot and you loose hardness
    Even if it is case hardened I would start a oversized hole with a carbid tipped masonary drill Then drill as far as I can with a HSS drill Finisch with a masonary drill again
    Then tap the hole as far as it would go

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Poyo:
    No reason that the gear guard has to be metal....Does not touch anything other than oil....
    Cheers Ross
    My initial idea was to use some putty on the 3d printed part to give some mechanical strength to it and paint with oil resistant 2k pur. My concern was that if oil gets hot. But I believe it won't reach to 90° so that it would distort the guard.

    I don't have any oxy acetylene or access to it, small hand held propane and a cheap hot air blower that goes up to 350°

    So, let's see it'll be any use. But it's good to get tips always, never know when I'll be out of options 😄

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    Viola! It is out

    img_20210808_133059.jpg img_20210808_140252.jpg

    I gave it a quick blow with the hot air gun on the highest setting, then used the wooden wedges, came out after couple of hits.

    img_20210808_133227.jpgimg_20210808_133238.jpg

    what seems like a rust on the ring is dried oil essentially, there was fair bit of it on the shaft end of the bevel gear too. Bearing had some noise and play to it so I ordered a new one.

    Started to take apart the X axis afterwards, another surprise. Lead screw is slightly bent on one end. Actually on first sight seemed only bent on the small diameter where handle is attached, but need to take a better look next time since I had only limited time this weekend. End of September my wife and kids goes for holiday so I'll have most of the evenings and weekends free to focus on this.

    img_20210808_141720.jpg


    Thanks for the great input, I am open for more on the leadscrew topic

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    From what I have seen on these forums, most bent lead screws are damaged when someone runs a fork lift or other heavy object into a handle or the machine falls over. Often this can be fixed, either by bending it back or by machining off the damaged stub and then drilling/threading, and using the correct loctite to permanently attach a threaded repair piece.
    Last edited by ballen; 08-10-2021 at 04:55 AM.

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    I am with Bruce on this one....
    Most likely the shaft can be straightened....Vee blocks and an indicator you can get it pretty close.
    Had a lathe once with a bent spindle...Careful work and some tooling (half round saddles to support the spindle without applying point loadings)and some peening got the spindle
    within .00005" TIR......New bearings and it was good to go.
    Cheers Ross

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    Any idea why the gear was stuck on, other than just dried spooge? Also it almost looked like the shaft would be too short to put the locknut back on (when you get a locknut) which implies maybe the gear was partly off from a previous owner?

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    I always straighten it in the assembled position That is the position it got bend So that is the position to straighten it Indicatotr and a dead blow hammer will do the trick If bearing is bad afterwards replace it But I never had a problem
    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Any idea why the gear was stuck on, other than just dried spooge? Also it almost looked like the shaft would be too short to put the locknut back on (when you get a locknut) which implies maybe the gear was partly off from a previous owner?
    Shaft has some room to move back and forth if you don't have the front nut so the #7 post from me has a photo where it is pushed back, and the gear was hold in place by the contact of the gear within the vertical head which caused the bearing to wear unevenly probably


    Great tips again thanks!, I do not have many precision tooling so I'll have to trust to my eyes and the flattest large enough surface I have, my table saw Sadly I have only a tiny surface plate

    Maybe Peter's suggestion would come handy here since I can dial it on the machine, just have to straighten tip so it does not damage anything when I put it back.

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    So, I finally received the bearing and 56 teeth mod1 spur gears I needed for the lathe to be able to make the missing nut. Usually the case... From (almost) compete set of change gears only ones I was missing were the ones I needed. I also made an attachment for the shaper so I can cut the keyway on the gears.

    img_20210822_160039.jpg

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    Did you check if those nuts were a stock item? Cost only about €2 or €3 then

    Peter


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