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    Default FP1 New to Me

    Hi all,
    I recently (yesterday) purchased a lever type FP1 and am in the process of cleaning it up to get it running again. It is fairly dirty and gummy, but otherwise seems to be in good shape. What oil you guys use in the sumps? The manual calls for "Bearing Oil, 4.5 deg. Engler @ 120F" Never heard of that one...

    Also, is there an exploded parts view for the FP1s? Would be good to make sure everything is where it belongs.

    Thanks!
    Bob

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    Oil for gearbox: Good quality "AW 46 Hydraulic oil"
    That equates to Mobil DTE 25...

    There are two user manuals for the FP1. An operators manual and a parts manual.
    Needs to be coupled to your series machine.

    Perhaps someone here can copy one for you...Or might try "Tony's UK Lathes" site....

    Deckel | store.lathes.co.uk
    Cheers Ross

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    Google is your friend: <http://www.claredot.net/en/sec-Conversions/conv-kinematic-viscosity.php>. It looks like 4.5° Engler converts to ISO Centistokes in the low 30s. Centistokes are the sane, modern unit of kinematic viscosity. Mobil DTE 24 is ISO 32. ISO 46 will be AOK, and is what goes in Deckel FPxNC machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rklopp View Post
    Google is your friend: <http://www.claredot.net/en/sec-Conversions/conv-kinematic-viscosity.php>. It looks like 4.5° Engler converts to ISO Centistokes in the low 30s. Centistokes are the sane, modern unit of kinematic viscosity. Mobil DTE 24 is ISO 32. ISO 46 will be AOK, and is what goes in Deckel FPxNC machines.
    Thanks guys, and sorry for the duplicate posts. Didn't see the first one post, so did a second thinking I did something wrong.

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    Plenty of manuals on that French site
    Not only French
    Here is a link to the FP1 page with links to about a dozen manuals
    Deckel FP1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    Plenty of manuals on that French site
    Not only French
    Here is a link to the FP1 page with links to about a dozen manuals
    Deckel FP1
    Thank you Peter, very helpful!

    Initial Machine Impressions:
    Gear oil looks like black honey yuk!

    Tables drives are a all a bit stiff - getting better with cleaning and fresh oil.
    X axis has about 0.017" backlash, Y axish has about 0.007"

    Ways look quite good.

    All gears seem to engage as they should but one on the table drive wants to be slightly past the the pin hole position. Adjustment required I suspect..

    Table gear shift works reasonably well for the x axis (have to hold it slightly to keep from pushing out of engagement). Z axis has a much shorter throw, requires hard pressure to keep from pushing out of engagement. Also, elevation hand wheel has clicking sound which goes away when gear shift is moved slightly out of the center detent. Any guidance on how this should work would be appreciated. Doesn't feel quite right the way it is.

    How are you guys driving these machines? My motor is a Siemens 220V 3ph 60hz 2 speed unit. I will need a VFD as I have 240 single phase in my shop. Do you use the VFD without the giant electrical box or do you pump the 3 phase into the box to get the 2 speeds? I wouldn't mind running without the box if I can get the full range of machine performance.

    Thanks again, I think I'm going to enjoy this little beast!

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    I use a small Hitachi VFD without the box. It's screwed on the wall on the right hand side.

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    You don't want to be switching motor speeds while under VFD power. Even if you always remember to change speeds with the VFD "off", it's not ideal, because the VFD likes to be tuned to specific motor characteristics, which change when the switch the speeds, as in from 2- to 4-pole operation. I like Hitachi WJ200 drives, and would just hardwire the motor on the high speed and vary the speed with the VFD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowpass View Post
    Thank you Peter, very helpful!

    Initial Machine Impressions:
    Gear oil looks like black honey yuk!

    Tables drives are a all a bit stiff - getting better with cleaning and fresh oil.
    X axis has about 0.017" backlash, Y axish has about 0.007"

    Ways look quite good.

    All gears seem to engage as they should but one on the table drive wants to be slightly past the the pin hole position. Adjustment required I suspect..

    Table gear shift works reasonably well for the x axis (have to hold it slightly to keep from pushing out of engagement). Z axis has a much shorter throw, requires hard pressure to keep from pushing out of engagement. Also, elevation hand wheel has clicking sound which goes away when gear shift is moved slightly out of the center detent. Any guidance on how this should work would be appreciated. Doesn't feel quite right the way it is.

    How are you guys driving these machines? My motor is a Siemens 220V 3ph 60hz 2 speed unit. I will need a VFD as I have 240 single phase in my shop. Do you use the VFD without the giant electrical box or do you pump the 3 phase into the box to get the 2 speeds? I wouldn't mind running without the box if I can get the full range of machine performance.

    Thanks again, I think I'm going to enjoy this little beast!
    First make sure the machine is not running in reverse

    Your Deckel cannot engage powerfeeds when running in reverse None of the single motor types can

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowpass View Post
    I wouldn't mind running without the box if I can get the full range of machine performance.
    One accessory that can be very useful is a centering microscope, that runs off 6 VAC, probably supplied by that box through a built-in connector. This has an interlock which prevents the motor from turning if the microscope is plugged in. So if you get rid of the box and replace it with a VFD, give some thought to incorporating that connector with an interlock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    One accessory that can be very useful is a centering microscope, that runs off 6 VAC, probably supplied by that box through a built-in connector. This has an interlock which prevents the motor from turning if the microscope is plugged in. So if you get rid of the box and replace it with a VFD, give some thought to incorporating that connector with an interlock.
    Hey Bruce,

    we haven't seen pictures but I would guess that's a MT4 machine. Did they ever make a centering scope on MT4 shank?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanvg View Post
    Hey Bruce,

    we haven't seen pictures but I would guess that's a MT4 machine. Did they ever make a centering scope on MT4 shank?
    Well, they did:



    Not that easy to find anymore,and if, then quit pricey...

    Stefan
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails deckelfp1mk2_accessoires_mk4_centering_microscope_1963.jpg  

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    Long view of your power needs:
    From my perspective the acquisition of a machine, a Deckel in this case, generally is not a singular event...More Iron will almost always follow....
    Almost all decent machine tools have three phase motors....

    Might want to start now to build for the future....Get yourself a Phase Perfect and be ready for future machine purchases, as well as not having to mess with rewiring a machine to allow use of
    a VFD or such....Also, you will be able to utilize the full torque of your motor. (both speeds)
    The PP will give you utility company quality (or better) power that will run your entire shop......Ends that need o your can move on to more pressing issues like rebuilding the new jewel you just scored...
    Cheers Ross

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    Appreciate all the responses. The Deckel is all new to me and the learning curve is steep! The electrical power will take some study, and I want to do what's best longer term. I do have limited space so the only other potential 3PH machine would be a lathe. Presently running a Rockwell 11 which came with a single phase motor. Might switch to a 3 PH lathe at some point, but no immediate plans.

    Doh! The gear shift works fine if I rotate the hand wheel in the opposite direction! Much to learn....

    Pictures: I'm not very well organized at the moment having just gathered up the machine, but here are a few shots of my mess.img_0774.jpgimg_0776.jpgimg_0773.jpgimg_0775.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Long view of your power needs:
    From my perspective the acquisition of a machine, a Deckel in this case, generally is not a singular event...More Iron will almost always follow....
    Almost all decent machine tools have three phase motors....

    Might want to start now to build for the future....Get yourself a Phase Perfect and be ready for future machine purchases, as well as not having to mess with rewiring a machine to allow use of
    a VFD or such....Also, you will be able to utilize the full torque of your motor. (both speeds)
    The PP will give you utility company quality (or better) power that will run your entire shop......Ends that need o your can move on to more pressing issues like rebuilding the new jewel you just scored...
    Cheers Ross
    I seem to be having trouble posting pictures, let's try again. Still very disorganized having just just moved the machine, but here are a few shots.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_0777.jpg   img_0775.jpg   img_0773.jpg   img_0776.jpg   img_0774.jpg  


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    OK, that worked. Must just be ESO (Equipment Smarter than Operator) again... Machine is early 60s MT4, with inch scales. Has larger size MT4 collets and smaller Deckel collets from 3/16 to 1". Also has what looks to be couple of MT4 to R8 adapters and R8 drawbar. It has the usual horizontal arbors and over-ram, adjustable table, standard vertical head and slotting head, Indexing head and spiral milling attachment.

    Doh! Stick shift works fine when I turn the hand wheel the correct direction! Yet another ESO...

    Don't know that I can afford a Phase Perfect at the present time (ouch). Any help on VFD or other options is greatly appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quarkgluonplasma View Post
    Well, they did:


    Stefan

    Indeed they did!

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    Hi.

    You can get a VFD that take in 230 V single phase and give out three phase 230 V.
    They are used a lot by hobbyists in the UK, for instance.

    One particular bonus is, they don't trip your protection relay.

    And I believe Danfoss VFD's can have more than one current setup (power off, switch contact on VFD, switch leads on motor and power on).

    So it would be possible to have your cake and eat it. I bought a standard 3 HP VFD (because they are sexy) for my FP2, but I can't use it at home,
    because it's three phase in and out, which trips my relay.

    Cheers
    Erik
    Last edited by Erik; 03-31-2019 at 05:24 AM.

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    Congratulations on the FP1. Sounds like you got a lot of accessories with it. I'd be interested to see pictures of your spiral milling attachment. Particularly the gear box. I have one but not the correct gear box. Believe they are somewhat rare.

    As to powering it. If you want the least expense and least work, you can get a rotary phase converter. Pretty much plug and play, you keep the control box as is because the rotary creates 3 phase for you. I'm in the process of switching mine over to eliminate the rotary phase converter and control box and use a VFD instead. The silence of a VFD makes the machine so much more enjoyable to use.

    Teryk

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by mTeryk View Post
    Congratulations on the FP1. Sounds like you got a lot of accessories with it. I'd be interested to see pictures of your spiral milling attachment. Particularly the gear box. I have one but not the correct gear box. Believe they are somewhat rare.

    As to powering it. If you want the least expense and least work, you can get a rotary phase converter. Pretty much plug and play, you keep the control box as is because the rotary creates 3 phase for you. I'm in the process of switching mine over to eliminate the rotary phase converter and control box and use a VFD instead. The silence of a VFD makes the machine so much more enjoyable to use.

    Teryk

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the responses.

    I would be happy to take some pictures of the Spiral gearbox and gear sets. Also, you are welcome to stop by if you ever get up to Bend!

    Which VFD are you using? I think I have room for the giant electrical box, so wouldn't mind powering through it - at least to start out. Not sure about the 2 speed aspect as commented above, and I have read that older motors aren't able to tolerate frequency changes as well as newer ones designed for VFDs. I will call VFDs.com tomorrow and see what they think. My motor is a 2hp Siemens 220V 60hz.


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