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Thread: FP1 New to Me

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowpass View Post
    Thanks for the responses.

    I would be happy to take some pictures of the Spiral gearbox and gear sets. Also, you are welcome to stop by if you ever get up to Bend!

    Which VFD are you using? I think I have room for the giant electrical box, so wouldn't mind powering through it - at least to start out. Not sure about the 2 speed aspect as commented above, and I have read that older motors aren't able to tolerate frequency changes as well as newer ones designed for VFDs. I will call VFDs.com tomorrow and see what they think. My motor is a 2hp Siemens 220V 60hz.
    I'm using an Automation Direct GS2. I wouldn't worry about the older motors on a VFD. I ran a mill with a non-inverter rated motor on a VFD for years with no problems and have read about many people who have done the same. I think if it were for production use where the mill was going to be run all day every day or at really low RPM's all the time there might be a concern but, at least for my use of a mill, it hasn't been a problem.

    If you do use a VFD, what you end up doing is using the high speed windings of the motor and utilize the VFD to slow it down for the lower speed settings. Last machine I did this with (Hardinge TM) it was easy to just reroute the mills controls to the VFD. With the FP1 it's a little different as the buttons on the mill are momentary contact which don't work well with the control inputs for the VFD I have. One way around this would be with the use of latching relays. At this point I am just controlling the VFD with it's control panel.

    The main reason I switched over to a VFD is so that I could reverse the spindle when power tapping. Smaller footprint and less noise are a bonus. I'll have to come up with a better solution as the control panel isn't the best in this application but it just hasn't risen to the top of my todo list yet.

    Teryk

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mTeryk View Post
    I'm using an Automation Direct GS2. I wouldn't worry about the older motors on a VFD. I ran a mill with a non-inverter rated motor on a VFD for years with no problems and have read about many people who have done the same. I think if it were for production use where the mill was going to be run all day every day or at really low RPM's all the time there might be a concern but, at least for my use of a mill, it hasn't been a problem.

    If you do use a VFD, what you end up doing is using the high speed windings of the motor and utilize the VFD to slow it down for the lower speed settings. Last machine I did this with (Hardinge TM) it was easy to just reroute the mills controls to the VFD. With the FP1 it's a little different as the buttons on the mill are momentary contact which don't work well with the control inputs for the VFD I have. One way around this would be with the use of latching relays. At this point I am just controlling the VFD with it's control panel.

    The main reason I switched over to a VFD is so that I could reverse the spindle when power tapping. Smaller footprint and less noise are a bonus. I'll have to come up with a better solution as the control panel isn't the best in this application but it just hasn't risen to the top of my todo list yet.

    Teryk
    Thanks! I spoke with Drives Warehouse and they recommended the Hitachi WJ200-015SF. It looks to have the ability to accept the momentary switch inputs directly without need for latching relays. We will see, I will order it tomorrow.

    Attached are a few shots of the Spiral Attachment gearbox and gear set. My Spiral attachment has an SK40 taper. I have one SK40 arbor and a SK40 to Morse 4 adapter. I think it shares the 3 Jaw with the indexing table (to which it is presently mounted) but I haven't checked that out yet. The left hand x axis table handle is extended several inches with a split sleeve presumablyimg_0781.jpgimg_0783.jpgimg_0784.jpgimg_0782.jpgimg_0787.jpg to align with the with the gearbox. If you need a shot of that piece or if you would like additional photos or higher resolution, PM me with your email address and I will send them to you.

  3. #23
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    Something strange with that gear box...Looks to have been modified , not sure what's going on there....Looks to be missing one of the gear axles.
    Not sure how that would work. if you eliminate that gear and mesh with the 2and gear in the stack, you would have to raise the gear box up to make up with the gear on the "X" axis.....
    If the gearbox is raised, then you can't align the output drive with the spiral head.....

    Most setups using the spiral attachment don't use a handle on the non operators side of the "X" screw.....Just a gear.

    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Something strange with that gear box...Looks to have been modified , not sure what's going on there....Looks to be missing one of the gear axles.
    Not sure how that would work. if you eliminate that gear and mesh with the 2and gear in the stack, you would have to raise the gear box up to make up with the gear on the "X" axis.....
    If the gearbox is raised, then you can't align the output drive with the spiral head.....

    Most setups using the spiral attachment don't use a handle on the non operators side of the "X" screw.....Just a gear.

    Cheers Ross
    Looking at the gear diagram, I would say you're right! I also have a package of parts that has Spiral marked on it and what appears to be another gear axle. The gearbox shows no signs of modification, but who knows? Here is a shot of my left hand handle. When removed it has the same dog interface as the gearbox. Also a picture of the gearbox mounted (handle removed) to the table since you now have me curious.
    This is all new to me. A bunch of other stuff came with the machine and I have yet to inventory it. The previous owner was quite well organized, but that doesn't ensure that something didn't go missing sometime along the way...img_0788.jpgimg_0789.jpgimg_0791.jpgimg_0792.jpg

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    Looks modified to me....Photo #3 of post #22 with photos clearly shows a half moon cutout close the the gear stack...Do not believe that cutout is factory ,note its clean, no paint
    unlike the hole above it...
    Further, looks like that relief has removed some of the "T" slot that carries the first gear axle (missing)....

    Not an expert on the spiral setup, but looks to me as though that gearbox was made for a later vintage machine, and someone has modified it to work
    on your machine...
    Deckel maintained some standard dimensions across the machine lines like the overarm dovetail dimension...However the distance from the "X" screw to the vertical table face are not all the same....
    Down side is that the gear charts for lead will not be relevant as it appears that you will not be able to run with the first gear set.....

    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Looks modified to me....Photo #3 of post #22 with photos clearly shows a half moon cutout close the the gear stack...Do not believe that cutout is factory ,note its clean, no paint
    unlike the hole above it...
    Further, looks like that relief has removed some of the "T" slot that carries the first gear axle (missing)....

    Not an expert on the spiral setup, but looks to me as though that gearbox was made for a later vintage machine, and someone has modified it to work
    on your machine...
    Deckel maintained some standard dimensions across the machine lines like the overarm dovetail dimension...However the distance from the "X" screw to the vertical table face are not all the same....
    Down side is that the gear charts for lead will not be relevant as it appears that you will not be able to run with the first gear set.....

    Cheers Ross
    Could be... Looks to be a "professional" cut but maybe an owner mod. Certainly required to interface with X screw on my machine. It doesn't matter much to me as I won't be using it allot anyway, except maybe to experiment. FWIW, my documentation includes a chart for running with the gears set up as in my box. img_0793.jpgimg_0794.jpg

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    This spiral milling attachment is for a FP2 probably
    The hole for the X-axe is repositioned for the different distance from cente of X-as to the table
    that is bigger on a FP2

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by mTeryk View Post
    I'm using an Automation Direct GS2. I wouldn't worry about the older motors on a VFD. I ran a mill with a non-inverter rated motor on a VFD for years with no problems and have read about many people who have done the same. I think if it were for production use where the mill was going to be run all day every day or at really low RPM's all the time there might be a concern but, at least for my use of a mill, it hasn't been a problem.

    If you do use a VFD, what you end up doing is using the high speed windings of the motor and utilize the VFD to slow it down for the lower speed settings. Last machine I did this with (Hardinge TM) it was easy to just reroute the mills controls to the VFD. With the FP1 it's a little different as the buttons on the mill are momentary contact which don't work well with the control inputs for the VFD I have. One way around this would be with the use of latching relays. At this point I am just controlling the VFD with it's control panel.

    The main reason I switched over to a VFD is so that I could reverse the spindle when power tapping. Smaller footprint and less noise are a bonus. I'll have to come up with a better solution as the control panel isn't the best in this application but it just hasn't risen to the top of my todo list yet.

    Teryk
    Up and running now with the Hitachi VFD. A little clunky to program but not terrible once you get the hang if it. I wired it to run the high speed settings for the motor @ the rated 60hz on the VFD. I can turn it down to 30hz for the low speed which I doubt that I will use very often. I have the accel/deccel set at 2 seconds and have it wired to the machine momentary switches to start and stop. Everything seems to work as it should. Now to make some chips!

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