FP1 Stuck arbour - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    The rest of the spindle and the bronze bearings are in good order, I would just have to have the morse taper ground, however I am still running the risk of the problem repeating so I am going for international instead.
    I would add that the bits are still stuck in there, I have decided to make a new one in 40 international from pre-toughened steel, I hope to get away without cylindrical grinding
    Peter

  2. #62
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    Sorry to hear you're still having trouble getting the stuck taper apart. As usual a lot of advise here without much information; I for one would like to at least seen some pictures of your efforts in this regard, may be someone might have noticed a better way of going forward? I wish you the best of luck getting your mill back in good order.
    Dan

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    Thats not gonna work
    With a Deckel the needles of the needlebearings are running on the spindle No innerrace or outerrace. Just a cage with needles

    To me you ran into some kind of wierd problem
    Solve it and it probably will never happen again
    Lots of people using MT without any problems


    Peter

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    Peter:
    Think he has a plain bushing spindle....no needles there...
    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Peter:
    Think he has a plain bushing spindle....no needles there...
    Cheers Ross
    Sorry
    I forgot that option

    Peter

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    Ross is right, my machine is pre war with bronze bearings front and back. I will have to take care with the turning to get the concentricity and tapers right but I have nothing to loose other than the metal and time.
    I am lousy with posting photos, but will try when I have something to show other than nasty little bits of arbour friction welded inside the morse taper of the old spindle.
    Peter

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    I keep coming back, hoping for interesting photos. If you get some, please do post them.

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  9. #68
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    A very belated update, I decided to try and clean up the morse taper. I fitted a Hardinge lever operated cross slide to the table of the Deckel and set it over to the morse taper angle using a sine bar.
    I then made up a crude pair of clamps to hold a hand held die grinder to the slide and ground the taper.
    I got the spindle going in bottom gear and gently worked the grinder in and out, concentrating on the spots where the friction welded bits were thickest
    I took it very slowly and expected the bits of the old arbour to come loose as they got thinner. This did not really happen until they were down to .008” thick when I was able to tap most of the bits out with a punch, a final clean up and all seems to be OK. The grinding took about 2 hours.
    I now have a nice length of pre toughened steel(EN24T) for when I decide to machine up a new spindle with an international taper.

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  11. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Colman View Post
    I took it very slowly and expected the bits of the old arbour to come loose as they got thinner. This did not really happen until they were down to .008” thick when I was able to tap most of the bits out with a punch, a final clean up and all seems to be OK. The grinding took about 2 hours.
    Congratulations on finally getting it free! I remember this thread, and was wondering what eventually happened. Thanks for the update.

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    Peter,

    Your first post is date June 2016 and here we are near 5 years later. That is perseverance. For the future here are 3 tried and true unsticking methods. They work for most metals. Keep in mind coefficients of expansion differ, sometimes widely.

    1. For small bore things like a valve guide in a cylinder head. A common size is 8mm or 5/16" bore x 10mm od x 50mm long. Drill out leaving .005" or .010" then with a 3 corner file cut a groove along the length. The cut has to be deep enough to go thru and the allow the od to collapse. Don't worry about leaving a small scare. The new guide or bushing will cover it and not be affected by it.

    2. For medium bore things like a 6" shrink fit stub shaft in a 25' long x 30" diameter roller from a paper machine. The shaft is typically fit with a .006" to .012" interference fit and maybe 30" long. To remove it, cut off the shaft near flush with the end of the roll then bore 2, repeat 2 holes in the end of the shaft all the way thru to the inside end. For a 6" shaft, the 2 holes would be about 2-15/16" dia overlapping 1/8" in the center. This produces a figure 8 shape without the web in the center. The irregular shape causes the od of the shaft to buckle at the weak spots and will practically fall out. FYI, new shafts are usually reassembled by heating the bore with big diesel torches to a couple hundred degrees f and/or soaking the shaft in a vat of liquid nitrogen. On a 6" shaft expect a 1/16" clearance but act fast because it only lasts seconds after the 2 parts are mated. He who hesitates is lost.

    3. For large bore or maybe more accurately short bores fire up your welder. An example might be a 12" dia x 3" long sleeve in a pump. Run a weld bead around the inside. This will shrink the sleeve. Sometimes a second or third spaced evenly is require for longer bores. This works well for small bearing races as well where the shoulder is not exposed and you can't get a drift on the backside to punch or press it out. An example might be a race in a motor cycle wheel. A couple little tack welds with a mig gun is enough. Turn the wheel over and the race will just fall out.

    Each of these methods can be scaled up and down, modified and combined to meet the challenge. Otherwise, brut force and a BFH might get the job done but be prepared for that sudden sinking feeling.


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