FP2 vertical table and support tear-down and reassembly - Page 17
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    I have spent all day in the workshop trying to remove the top bevel gear .After removing the tapered pins and shaft I have had no luck removing the top bevel Gear ,after looking at your picture and comparing it with my setup it looks like my gear is larger and that is causing the problem .There is no room to push the side bevels outward to get clearance and the washers at the base are pinned to the bush. Any Ideas would be appreciated .Regards Greg img_0517.jpgimg_0517.jpg

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    Hi Greg,

    you can not remove the bevel gear or gears without pulling the bronze bushing down first to gain clearance. Can you please remind us, why do you want to remove the gears? This is not needed for cleaning or lubrication, only if a gear is damaged and must be replaced. Is that the case for your mill?

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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    I thought it was necessary to remove the gears so that I could clean out the oil cavities and the bearings but it looks like I can leave them in .The two areas are a bit of a mess with rust in the lower section however the gears and shafts are ok as they had lots of sludge and grease on them .I am going to try and clean the area up before proceeding further .Their is a lot of valuable information in your post which i appreciate Regards Greg

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    Default Vertical Table Lubrication

    Quote Originally Posted by hypersport View Post
    I thought it was necessary to remove the gears so that I could clean out the oil cavities and the bearings but it looks like I can leave them in .The two areas are a bit of a mess with rust in the lower section however the gears and shafts are ok as they had lots of sludge and grease on them .I am going to try and clean the area up before proceeding further .Their is a lot of valuable information in your post which i appreciate Regards Greg
    I have finally cleaned all the oil ways out however I don't know what oil is used for lubrication of the bevel gears inside the table assy. I believe the gears are lubricated by the way oil making its way through the internal oil galleries. My lubrication instructions only show way oil being added through the oil nipples on both sides of the vertical table .Is this right or am I missing something as I have seen iso68 oil mentioned in previous posts
    Thanks Greg

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    Hi Greg,

    If you have the patience to read through my post, you'll see that these bevel gears are lubricated by a small "drip spout" above them. This gets it's oil from a long horizontal passage, which has aluminum plugs at either end. You can drill, tap and pull out the plugs to get access to that horizontal oil passage to clean it out. The "drip spout" has a small piece of felt to slow the oil.

    The oil in this horizontal gallery comes from one of the oil nipples on the door side of the support. It's the nipple that is NOT connected to the oil sight glass on that side.

    I originally used ISO68 bedway oil, but Franz Singer advocates ISO220 bedway oil for Deckel manual machines, so that's what I am now using.

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Hi Greg,

    If you have the patience to read through my post, you'll see that these bevel gears are lubricated by a small "drip spout" above them. This gets it's oil from a long horizontal passage, which has aluminum plugs at either end. You can drill, tap and pull out the plugs to get access to that horizontal oil passage to clean it out. The "drip spout" has a small piece of felt to slow the oil.

    The oil in this horizontal gallery comes from one of the oil nipples on the door side of the support. It's the nipple that is NOT connected to the oil sight glass on that side.

    I originally used ISO68 bedway oil, but Franz Singer advocates ISO220 bedway oil for Deckel manual machines, so that's what I am now using.

    Cheers,
    Bruce
    Thanks Bruce
    I have read your post many many times and It is a wealth of information. Thats why I asked the question about the iso 220 oil and if I was reading the info correctly.I have removed the plugs and cleaned out the oil galleries.I have put some wicking cotton in the top nipple that drips oil on to the gears however as the oil has a high viscosity the oil is only flowing through the nipple with no cotton in it .Thats why I was checking.
    Regards Greg

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    Hi Greg!

    For those who are not sure, the oil nipple under discussion is the one on above the left bevel gear in this photo. I called it a "drip spout" in my previous posting.



    It appears there is also one on the right side, but that is a reflection from the casting. Here is another view, with the large bevel gear slid over:



    Quote Originally Posted by hypersport View Post
    I have put some wicking cotton in the top nipple that drips oil on to the gears however as the oil has a high viscosity the oil is only flowing through the nipple with no cotton in it. Thats why I was checking.
    I seem to recall that this particular nipple had a small felt disk rather than cotton string. But you are right to check that oil flows through this point. It was only later in the history of my clean-up that I began to check that oil did indeed flow as expected; I don't think that I ever checked this nipple. I believe that oil can also flow to these gears from the area around the X-axis lead-screw nut, but the nipple should also work or it would not be there. Could you test this without any cotton to see if ISO220 will flow down, and perhaps also with ISO68? Be sure to fill the vertical drilling above the nipple with oil, since it is the weight of the oil in that vertical drilling that provides the needed pressure to make oil flow downwards through the small hole in spite of its viscosity.

    If we can't figure this out on our own I can check with Franz Singer directly next week.

    Cheers,
    Bruce

    PS: Karl, have you experimented with this oil point on your FP2?

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    Hi Bruce,
    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Karl, have you experimented with this oil point on your FP2?
    Not yet. At my FP2-support, only the drain tube [that guides the oil to the lowermost bevel gear (at the upper end of the z-acme-screw)] needs to be pulled and some of the aluminium plugs.
    Than the next step will be cleaning the complete support inclusive all lubrication pathways and testing the pathways with oil.

    If there would be dicovered new informations about the FP2-support, that are not described yet, I will post it here.

    Unfortunately, in my case, reconditioning the FP2 is a long time project which steps are done sporadically.

    Cheers,
    Karl

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Hi Greg!

    For those who are not sure, the oil nipple under discussion is the one on above the left bevel gear in this photo. I called it a "drip spout" in my previous posting.



    It appears there is also one on the right side, but that is a reflection from the casting. Here is another view, with the large bevel gear slid over:





    I seem to recall that this particular nipple had a small felt disk rather than cotton string. But you are right to check that oil flows through this point. It was only later in the history of my clean-up that I began to check that oil did indeed flow as expected; I don't think that I ever checked this nipple. I believe that oil can also flow to these gears from the area around the X-axis lead-screw nut, but the nipple should also work or it would not be there. Could you test this without any cotton to see if ISO220 will flow down, and perhaps also with ISO68? Be sure to fill the vertical drilling above the nipple with oil, since it is the weight of the oil in that vertical drilling that provides the needed pressure to make oil flow downwards through the small hole in spite of its viscosity.

    If we can't figure this out on our own I can check with Franz Singer directly next week.

    Cheers,
    Bruce

    PS: Karl, have you experimented with this oil point on your FP2?
    Thanks Bruce
    The oil Im using is ISO 220 and it flows through easily without the cotton wicking.I have put some wicking in the nipple and it does flow but its extremely slow .Im sure It will be fine when the oil is added under pressure .I have noticed that any excess oil is dripping out via the vertical screw.Would you have a part number for the oil sight glasses on each side of the table.
    Regards Greg

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    Hi Greg,

    Quote Originally Posted by hypersport View Post
    Thanks Bruce
    Glad to help!

    The oil Im using is ISO 220 and it flows through easily without the cotton wicking. I have put some wicking in the nipple and it does flow but its extremely slow.
    Extremely slow is good! One drop per hour would be more than enough, probably one drop per day would be OK as well. These gears just need a film of oil on them, nothing more.

    I'm sure It will be fine when the oil is added under pressure.
    I think the way it is meant to work is as follows. Above the nipple is a drilling with (perhaps) 1 cubic centimeter of volume. When you pump oil into the support, that drilling is filled. Then, it's supposed to slowly drain down over the next few days.

    I have noticed that any excess oil is dripping out via the vertical screw.
    That's normal. It should run down the vertical screw and into the Z lead-screw sump.

    Would you have a part number for the oil sight glasses on each side of the table.
    ELESA HE.20 or Kipp Nr K0446.2420 . There is an entire thread about this: How to Clean the Oil Sight Glass?
    including order and price information.

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Hi Greg,



    Glad to help!



    Extremely slow is good! One drop per hour would be more than enough, probably one drop per day would be OK as well. These gears just need a film of oil on them, nothing more.



    I think the way it is meant to work is as follows. Above the nipple is a drilling with (perhaps) 1 cubic centimeter of volume. When you pump oil into the support, that drilling is filled. Then, it's supposed to slowly drain down over the next few days.



    That's normal. It should run down the vertical screw and into the Z lead-screw sump.



    ELESA HE.20 or Kipp Nr K0446.2420 . There is an entire thread about this: How to Clean the Oil Sight Glass?
    including order and price information.

    Cheers,
    Bruce
    Bruce
    Thats the way I see it as well .Heres hoping the mill works well once completed.
    Thanks for the sight glass details
    Greg.

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    Hello, I would like to ask you guys on my deckel FP2E the slow speed moving does not work. Only the fast moving works. Please could you help me what could be wrong ?

    Thank you very much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vasil709 View Post
    Hello, I would like to ask you guys on my deckel FP2E the slow speed moving does not work. Only the fast moving works. Please could you help me what could be wrong ?

    Thank you very much.
    Hi vasil709-

    Welcome to the forum. It is generally considered poor form to ask off topic questions on another poster's thread. Try starting your own thread in the Deckel forum with a descriptive subject and I am sure people will help. The more information you provide, the better. Pictures always help too.

    Teryk

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    Hi Vasil,

    Quote Originally Posted by vasil709 View Post
    On my deckel FP2E the slow speed moving does not work. Only the fast moving works.
    As Teryk said, please start a NEW thread about this topic. I don't know what is wrong, but it must be in the gearbox. If you look in the owners manual, near the beginning is a schematic diagram showing how the gearbox and clutch work. The problem must be in the part of the gearbox that is "bypassed" when the rapids clutch is operated. It might also be that the clutch is out of adjustment, so that when it is released, it falls into the "neutral" setting rather than the "released" setting which engages the normal drive. Hopefully others here with more experience can comment.

    Cheers,
    Bruce
    Last edited by ballen; 08-03-2017 at 06:32 AM.

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    Things to check:
    First off when it feeds using the rapid.....is it really feeding , that is does the slide move with power (when the lever is pushed firmly to engage the rapid) or can you stop the motion easily by grasping the hand wheel...
    Its possible to have a broken shear pin that when moving the slide slowly (regular feed) there is slippage that prevents movement, however
    when engaging the rapid and things start moving fast...then the friction between the input shaft and the drive at he shear pin gets things to move....
    Check this first because its the simplest.

    If the shear pin is intact...can you tell if there is spring pressure on the rapid lever...should resist the engagement of the clutch (rapid) and spring smartly back when released...If not suspect the spring is broken
    of disconnected....Need the spring to pull the lever back, which engages a "dog" clutch that drives the normal power feeds....If no spring than the dog clutch will not be held engaged and you won't get any normal power feeding....
    If the spring is intact and it is pulling the lever back out of the rapid engagement, then the issue likely rests inside the gear box.....something is likely broken inside...Could be shorn drive key on the power feed dog
    clutch hub, or the dog clutch teeth ate broken of rounded off.....Something of that nature....
    Investigate the outside parts first....

    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    I was not looking forward to putting the X-table back on, but it was surprisingly easy and not stressful. I clamped a sheet of 22 mm OSB onto a worktable, about 90 cm from the ground, overhanging the table a little bit, and adjusted the height of the support. Then I carefully lined up the table and simply pushed it into place, then bolted on the retainer plates and inserted the gibs. Note: be sure to put the X-table clamping pin and rod into place first.
    Hey Bruce,

    I'm just re-installing the table on my FP2, and I'm puzzled at this point. Does the clamping pin need to slip into place as the table is sliding on, or is it possible to insert it afterwards? I figure perhaps if I remove the clamping rod I can slip the pin into place by sliding it down the hole for the locking rod?

    Thanks,
    Siggi

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    I figure perhaps if I remove the clamping rod I can slip the pin into place by sliding it down the hole for the locking rod?
    Nevermind - I took a look at this and couldn't find any way the locking pin would slip into place from the inside. So, I slid the table half-way off again, got the pin and locking sleeve into place, then retained the pin with the gib as the table slid on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigurasg View Post
    Nevermind - I took a look at this and couldn't find any way the locking pin would slip into place from the inside. So, I slid the table half-way off again, got the pin and locking sleeve into place, then retained the pin with the gib as the table slid on.
    For anyone doing this reassembly, note that the locking rod has to go in before the endcap goes on the table (ask me how I know). Also make sure the rod is timed the right way before the endcap goes on, or it might need to come off again (ask me how I know).

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    This thread which I started some years ago is an old thread, but since people here still refer to it, I thought I would add a pointer to a recent beautiful FP2 restoration being carried out by Mannie from Austria. He obviously has a lot of experience in this sort of work. The thread has hundreds of detailed photos of the tear-down and build up, and should be very helpful to anyone undertaking a similar project. The time you invest in going through this and studying the photos is well worth it, since it will save you time and help you avoid mistakes.

    Here's the starting entry: Meine "Werkstattgeschichten" - Seite 9 - Zerspanungsbude

    PS: if you don't read German I am sure Google Translate can render the pages in passable English. In any case the photos convey the bulk of the information.

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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    Yes I can see loads of useful info in there just doing a quick skim. I saw some images of him pushing the lower shaft of the gearbox out back though, but then didn't see it completely disassembled so I am wondering what was up with that as on my machine the lower shaft had to come out the front.

    Interesting to see he has some kind of sleeves to stuff the wicks in, that would have been nice to have as well. It was an incredible PITA to get those in on my machine.

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