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FP2NC console reboots when spindle starts

torleifj

Cast Iron
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Location
Denmark
Hi all.
When I start the spindle at more than 50RPM, my FP2NC console reboots.
Any idea what the reason might be?
Best regards,
Torleif.
 
Voltage drop would be my guess, too. It could be due to a weak supply or a bad (resistive) power connection someplace. I formerly powered my FP2NC from an RPC and, if I started the spindle in the upper speed ranges while simultaneously doing a rapid move with more than one axis, the control would throw a fault. I learned to put a 1-second G4 F1.0 pause in my code after the S+xxxx command. I since moved up to a PhasePerfect, and all those power problems went away.
 
The question is this problem new or is the machine new to your installation?
If this machine is new to your use and location guess as others above have that the fault is one of voltage drop,,,,
Undersized RPC or wire sized too small from the mains to the machine...or.poor connections somewhere.

Be sure to check that the brake on the spindle drive motor is releasing and free to rotate when the motor is engaged.
Easy to test, by releasing the brake on the operators panel while shifting to neutral on the spindle (S+0) ...should allow free rotation...
Cheers Ross
.
 
The machine has been there for years and it is connected to a 3-phase outlet directly. I have not used it for a year until a month ago. I did the usual stuff to get it up and running and it worked without issues.
Yesterday, it had the spindle start issue. After 2 hours of warmup, I ran it at 1000RPM for 15 minutes, then it happened again while the spindle was running.
I have had the same issue some years ago, I just don't remember what the solution was or if the problem just disappeared. It may have been a motor protection issue, but if so, wouldn't it just throw an error instead of rebooting the console?
I also noticed that when relays are activated, there a glitches in the display. I wonder if there is a grounding issue or a connection issue with the power cable.
One other thing to notice is that the outdoor temperature has dropped by 10 degrees C since last time I used it. That also affects the temperature in my shop significantly. Ross' theory about the brake could be the explanation if it releases slower when it is cold.
Best regards,
Torleif.
 
SO either the spindle is drawing too much current or the supply is not delivering enough current. Or maybe both.

Check the voltages on all three legs at the power switch and at the spindle, with it running and not.

It sure sounds like a voltage issue, but it is possible it is not related to the machine itself. I would expect as rklopp mentioned, that it would reset on spindle start. Could be it dies when your heater or well pump or whatever kicks on and drops the voltage. Or your next door neighbors heater or...

Monitor the voltage to start
 
Perhaps interrupted neutral line?
Neutralleiter – Wikipedia
If neutral floats and some device uses lots of power between phase and neutral line, voltage on floating neutral line won't stay at zero, gets pulled towards that phase.
So if control is connected at the same phase, voltage on control drops, if connected on other phase than the power hungry device, it might get overvoltage...
 
There is another potential culprit....
Would have a look at the control power supply board.(NSV)
Your original post did not say which control you have...
Dialog 4 controls have know issues with the NSV boards and there is a factory tech bulletin on changes recommended to that board...
At any rate if the board is marginal, any voltage fluctuation as in motor start up might cause logic faults (which seems to be what you have)

Since this is an existing install, then something has changed to cause the problem. Most likely the incoming power from your utility is pretty stable, so..................................

Cheers Ross
 
.
Easy to test, by releasing the brake on the operators panel while shifting to neutral on the spindle (S+0) ...should allow free rotation...
Cheers Ross
.
...should allow free rotation of the motor, that is. The spindle should rotate freely no matter what the brake is doing, if the transmission is in neutral.
 
Yes, good catch Rich....Should have written to shift to highest spindle speed (3150/6300) then test for ease of rotation with the brake released..

To add some detail, the factory clearance between the disc and friction face when the brake is released (powered) should be .8mm.
Adjustment made by first loosening through Allen bolts (motor) and then adjusting the hex nuts, then re-tighten the Allens before checking clearance...be careful to keep clearance the same all around the disc.
Cheers Ross
 
So, there is no doubt that it generally releases the brake. I'm just wondering if there may sometimes be a small delay in the release. I often rotate the spindle manually when using my 3D probe.
Ross, where can I read about the changes to the NSV board? This could be the case.
Another observation: I left it powered yesterday, and today, with very little statistical evidence, it seems to work fine. It starts at any speed today. Could it be that the battery backup voltage has been too low for stable operation? Maybe in combination with the NSV issue?
Best regards,
Torleif.
 
Machines and controls of this age tend to get cranky in particular heating up and cooling off.....

My FP4NC that i have had forever has functions that become balky or non functional if i allow it to cool off.
For example the MPG locks up after a cold start up...select an axis and you can't change it or turn the MPG off. Changing mode does nothing....
Machine must be turned off and turned back on to clear the fault and regain the MPG function.
I leave that machine on (main power , not the control) all the time and its much happier.......

Member on this board, Wrench, reworked my NSV board when it started to have issued. Been rock solid for 3 plus years now....
He reworked the orange book schematics so that they are readable. He also had the info on the service update changes....
He is also the author of the "Deckel CD"

Some information here:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...ir-nsv-l1-upgrade-281504/?highlight=NSV+board

Cheers Ross
 
I'm just wondering if there may sometimes be a small delay in the release.
Torleif.

Mine sometimes starts the spindle motor before I hear the brake “clank” off. It doesn’t seem to affect anything, nor did it when I ran off an RPC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Think there is a inductor in the brake circuit that is intended to prevent any spikes (sort of a soft start thing) its a small rectangular part with two leads that connect to the brake relay contacts as i remember.
My FP4NC had trouble shifting and i removed that component..shifting issues solved....more crisp brake action.
Not sure this is a recommended fix, but it worked for me...Still running this way years post.
Cheers Ross
 
Thanks everyone.
I will upgrade my NSV board as it seems that it has general issues. Also, the connector at the top of the NSV seems to be in very bad condition. I will contact Wrench, for a board upgrade, an updated DVD or both. And then I will probably install better temperature control in my shop. If that doesn't do the trick, I will look into the other suggestions.
Thanks for all your help.
Best regards,
Torleif.
 
Hi all.
Just an update in case anyone else runs into the same problem.
I had not used the Deckel for a couple of years, and when I powered it up, it had a lot of issues. Once all the pther problems were solved, it again rebooted above 50 RPM.
I had left it running at 50RPM for many hours before doing anything, to bring it gently back to life.I thought it was relarted to spindle motor protection because it is cold in my workshop during winter, so I set it to max (=6.3A). No effect. Then I bypassed the motor protection completely. Now it would often do 1000 RPM when operated manually. During program execution it rebooted.
As an act of panic, I replaced the large electrolytic caps in the console power supply. Now the problem has vanished. I had to disconnect the green connector at the top of the board to get the board out, so it could be related to the connector, or it could be the caps, I'm not 100% sure.
It wasn't a stable problem, it changed from hour to hour, so there is no guarantee that this was the issue, but The Deckel has never felt this stable before.
I will keep you updated if anything new comes up.
BR Torleif.
 








 
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