FP3 CNC "No Signal" on CRT. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    OK so here is my take......
    This is a new machine to you,yes?
    Don't know about your experience level with the NC Deckels. or retrofitting. Further, the application for the machine, be it hobby, small business,R&D also play here.
    The answer to those questions would bear heavily on your next move.

    Seems that a generous offer to use existing working boards would at the least be the first move....
    Really does not require much of an investment (some time, logistics, and maybe a nice bottle whatever)
    Would answer some questions it seems immediately!
    Give you a chance to get the machine running with little investment, and give you a chance to evaluate the rest of the
    package...how sound is the machine mechanically, is it noisy, does it shift, are the ways (Z axis) sound ...etc.

    Further once running you could more easily get a handle on all the mechanical functions and how the machine works in order to evaluate what would be needed to retro-fit the control....

    Doing a retro on an unknown machine seems like a prescription for trouble. at the least i would want to verify that the basic iron was worth investing the time and $$$$ in a new control.

    Cheers Ross

  2. #22
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    It is definitely true that you need a spare control in case of problems. It took some time before I found the opportunity to swap boards with a working control. Eventually it turned out that the NPP was causing the problems. After swapping this board, the control came alive!

    Initially the control seemed to work. But during startup and some initial tests, the control stopped multiple times completely unexpected. I also noticed that sometimes the control was not responsive anymore to mode changes.

    I started with analyzing the 2 * 24 volt to the control with a scope. The 24 volt level dropped during activation of the several relays and also when the main motor was started. It also showed a huge ripple which was more or less consistent with the major noise caused by the NSV56 board. Swapping the NSV56 board changed the behavior of the control. It was more stable during startup, but starting the main motor still caused the control to stop. Also this NSV56 made quite some noise.

    I found on the PM forum that the electrolytic capacitors on the NSV’s age during time and should be replaced. I ordered new low-ESR electrolytic capacitors and replaced all of them, including all the normal 0.47/100V, the 10000uF in the cabinet and the ones on the NSV90. Be aware that the 4700uF capacitor housing connects several ground traces on the NSV56 board. So, you need to bridge these traces with some extra wiring. I tested the NSV’s before putting them back. The first thing I noticed was that the NSV56 did not make any noise anymore. I put the board back after some minor voltage adjustments. It looks like this solved a lot of problems. So far, the control remains responsive and up and running during all the operations. Hopefully it will remain this way!

    Next steps are to re-evaluate and possibly repair the faulty NPP board. Maybe the unstable NSV56 causes the NPP to fail, or worse, damaged the NPP. The monitor in the control has been replaced with a TFT. However, this TFT is not very bright. I adjusted all settings to a maximum, but it remains somewhat hard to read. Do not know if there are any other options to adjust the brightness? I found out that the control also has the DNC option. It would be nice to use this. Next day I will be visiting another deckel dialog4 user to learn more about the control....

    Cheers!

  3. #23
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    Cool!
    Sounds like you have made lots of progress, and essentially the machine is now up and running....
    Can't comment about the display, except that those screens are pretty sensitive to being read straight on to the screen face...any angle and the characters get hard to read.

    As to the DNC ...its very different from a conventional setup....
    If you have the software on the control (3.07) and the correct hardware board...you will need specialized software to both split the program and control its feed to the machine....

    I use a program made by "Beetz" called " Auto DNC"...Believe this program is no longer supported or sold by Beetz....Early versions were DOS, but there was a Windows beta version (that is what i have).
    Program is protected by dongle (hardware key)

    Here is a quick overview of how the DNC works:
    Long programs are first split into smaller programs that have a sequential numbering system...
    The program is held in your PC and the control is connected via RS232 cable.
    In DNC mode the program is called (first small segment) by the control from the PC.
    The computer loads the first program segment into the control, at this point the operator switches modes to setup the tool offsets (mode10) and loads the first tool and in mode 9 starts the program running.
    As the machine executes the small programs the control they are deleted from memory and additional segments are called for and loaded to memory....
    This process is continuous.
    In reality the machine is not "drip feeding" but rather running off memory, and refreshing that memory dynamically.

    Cheers Ross

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    I noticed this morning that I have both a NSP55 and NSP56 board. It looks that the NSP55 has massive more memory chips? Are they freely interchangeable? Beside the number of memory chips, I noticed some other minor differences. Now that I've got the control up and running, I like to keep it that way.

  5. #25
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    So here is the little i know about the control/board architecture.

    The first generation Dialog4 controls did not have the NEP 52 board. The K10 jumper always had 4 connectors, but only three were used to connect to the NPP, NSP and the NSI boards.
    As a consequence,I believe the NPP board was fully populated with E-proms....

    Machine memory was the same as later versions (256K) and i think there was an option to have more memory, but not sure if that was additional on the NSP or was fitted in an additional board in the empty #8 slot.

    Later the Dialog 4 was upgraded . There was now an NEP 52 board in slot #8 and the chip population on the NPP was reduced
    Result of this change were greater control functions to include real Helical interpolation. Calling a circular move (G2,G3) would include a dialog choice for a depth move (Z).
    There were some additional improvements to include (i believe) the inclusion of parameter programming.
    Graphics was standard, but required it to be enabled on one of the boards in the PC (forget which just now, but most machines by this point have that feature enabled)

    Not sure about interchangeability of the memory chips, but think the memory is limited by the processors ability to access more than the 256K that is the standard.
    Further the control is limited to 9999 blocks per program , so more memory is not the only limit here....

    One additional note relative to the DNC feature....
    Think the hardware needed to function with DNC requires the fitting of an NEP 52A board in place of the normal NEP 52....
    As far as i know there are no electronic or component prints for that board in the orange book....

    Without this change the DNC will not function even though you might have the 3.07 software package....


    Cheers Ross


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